Name that piece! The game

[Amfortas]

The phenomenally unfamous František Škroup (1801–1862)?

[Brian]

The phenomenally unfamous František Škroup (1801–1862)?

Sadly, that is the level of not-famous we're talking about, and sadly Škroup is not it. Škroup, according to Wikipedia's oddly funny entry ("He was buried in a mass grave. He also produced an oratorio"), only wrote one orchestral work, whereas the composer in question penned a cycle of symphonies and a separate cycle of concert overtures (or tone poems?).

I love the Škroup guess because he conducted Wagner premieres in Prague and thus would be ideally positioned to be all the things we've discussed.

[Amfortas]

The gigantically forgotten Vilém Blodek (October 3, 1834, Prague – May 1, 1874, Prague) ??

[Cato]

Nope! 
Nor Fibich - the dates don't line up, my clue was that the mystery composer died when Janacek and Foerster (b. 1850s) were children. 

Which would mean, given the influences heard in the music, that we are looking for somebody who died fairly young, and not someone born in the 1700's? 

[Brian]

He was born very, very close to the turn of the century. It might be unfair to test you on a single work, however, as this composer's style changed rather a lot in some ways over his career (and very little in other ways) - enough that the famous composer-critic whom I mentioned was an admirer and keen listener would, if you guessed his name, be a baffling red herring!

If we're just guessing now, then about 7 hours from now (provided the correct name has gone unfloated) I'll supply the answer.

[Amfortas]

Pavel Haas (1899–1944)?

[Cato]

Pavel Haas (1899–1944)?

Not possible: Brian meant c. 1800 for the birth of the mystery composer.  The composer died in the 1850's.

I thought I had a candidate in Johann Rufinatscha but he died in the 1890's.  His musical style seemed to fit, from the Amazon excerpt I heard.

[Amfortas]

Yeah. Tough one. It's hard to guess when you don't likely actually know the composer's music, or in this case, even the composer's name...

How about František Doubravský (1790-1867)?

[Cato]

Yes, indeed!

And where did Brian find such an obscure CD?

I might have gone with Kalliwoda because his dates are the closest, but stylistically Kalliwoda is much more rooted in Vergangenheitsmusik than Wagnerish Zukunftsmusik.

[Amfortas]

Yes, indeed!

And where did Brian find such an obscure CD?

I might have gone with Kalliwoda because his dates are the closest, but stylistically Kalliwoda is much more rooted in Vergangenheitsmusik than Wagnerish Zukunftsmusik.

So Doubravský is correct? Several of the names mentioned in this round are familar to me, but not their music. This was a tough one (if it's really finished) 

[Brian]

Yes, the round is indeed finished! But not without a surprise twist ending for our man Cato:

The composer is Johann Wenzel Kalliwoda (Jan Vaclav Kalivoda), 1801-1866. The work is extremely late: his Overture No 16, Op 238, written in 1863 when Kalliwoda had indeed absorbed the influence of Wagner.

A lesson to be learned here is that Kalliwoda was more versatile, and more adaptable, than we might usually credit an "Obscure Composer" with being. Especially so because he was one of the very earliest of the "early romantics": his first five symphonies were complete by 1840, and No 3 received a featured score review in an 1832 Allgemeine musikalische Zeitung - which explains how Kalliwoda's symphonies came to the attention of one of their greatest admirers, Robert Schumann. Indeed, it's hard for the Kalliwoda enthusiast to listen to the opening bars of Schumann's First and not think of the equally loud, brassy opening of Kalliwoda's (earlier) Fifth.

So there it is: an extremely obscure composer, as promised, whose influences are now forgotten - he seems to have informed the Schumann symphonies early in his career, while, as you heard, his later work sounds an awful lot like what we now know as the "Czech romantic" stlye!

By the way, the players are Das Neue Orchester and Christoph Spering - a HIP ensemble, so some of the early guesses really surprised me. It's a CPO CD that received a certified Dave Hurwitz 10/10.

I'll be starting a Kalliwoda thread later tonight in the composer section.    Meanwhile, perhaps we can offer Cato a turn at the wheel!

[Mirror Image]

It's a CPO CD that received a certified Dave Hurwitz 10/10.

Hurwitz really loves handing out those 10/10 ratings, doesn't he? He would probably give a classical rendition of Yankee Doodle Dandy a 10/10 if it was released on CPO, Harmonia Mundi, BIS, or Ondine. But if it was Boulez who conducted it, then that would be a very low rating. The guy gets stranger by the month.

[Amfortas]

"a HIP ensemble" -- qu'est-ce que c'est? I have seen this on the board before.

So it was Kalliwoda. I have heard the name, but the early Romantics are not my strongest area.

On to you, Cato!

[Brian]

"a HIP ensemble" -- qu'est-ce que c'est? I have seen this on the board before.

They're playing on period instruments, which explains the odd sonorities. "Historically Informed Performance."

[Cato]

Yes, the round is indeed finished! But not without a surprise twist ending for our man Cato:

The composer is Johann Wenzel Kalliwoda (Jan Vaclav Kalivoda), 1801-1866. The work is extremely late: his Overture No 16, Op 238, written in 1863 when Kalliwoda had indeed absorbed the influence of Wagner.

A lesson to be learned here is that Kalliwoda was more versatile, and more adaptable, than we might usually credit an "Obscure Composer" with being. Especially so because he was one of the very earliest of the "early romantics": his first five symphonies were complete by 1840, and No 3 received a featured score review in an 1832 Allgemeine musikalische Zeitung - which explains how Kalliwoda's symphonies came to the attention of one of their greatest admirers, Robert Schumann. Indeed, it's hard for the Kalliwoda enthusiast to listen to the opening bars of Schumann's First and not think of the equally loud, brassy opening of Kalliwoda's (earlier) Fifth.

So there it is: an extremely obscure composer, as promised, whose influences are now forgotten - he seems to have informed the Schumann symphonies early in his career, while, as you heard, his later work sounds an awful lot like what we now know as the "Czech romantic" stlye!

By the way, the players are Das Neue Orchester and Christoph Spering - a HIP ensemble, so some of the early guesses really surprised me. It's a CPO CD that received a certified Dave Hurwitz 10/10.

I'll be starting a Kalliwoda thread later tonight in the composer section.    Meanwhile, perhaps we can offer Cato a turn at the wheel!

Well, there you have it!  I kept thinking it could NOT be Kalliwoda, because I indeed have heard the Beethoven-mit-Schumann symphonies and thought, no, not possible. 

Plus, I did not think he was obscure enough!     This is what comes from knowing and liking too many "obscure" composers.

Brian: my computer and/or my incompetence with the website disallows me from placing an excerpt on myself: I will send a PM in a few minutes with a suggestion.

[karlhenning]

Bravo, Cato!

[Cato]

Bravo, Cato!

Shucks, 'twarn't nuthin' !   

Brian is working on setting up the next excerpt: another "rarity" but not as uncooked as Kalliwoda (!) who obviously deserves more attention!

The excerpt is from a very rarely-played symphony, by a composer who is, however, not neglected in other areas..

[Brian]

The excerpt is from a very rarely-played symphony, by a composer who is, however, not neglected in other areas..

Indeed true, and may I say, that during the repeated listening necessary for clip creation, I really grew to like the piece quite a bit. Many thanks, sir!

CLICK FOR CATO'S PUZZLER!

[Amfortas]

I keep getting a French vibe. Listened to the Dukas symphony again, it's not that.

[Cato]

I keep getting a French vibe. Listened to the Dukas symphony again, it's not that.

Vibespierre was the twin brother of Robespierre!