Claudio Monteverdi

[bassio]

Did Alessandrini complete the cycle or he only recorded the sixth and eighth?

[FideLeo]

Did Alessandrini complete the cycle or he only recorded the sixth and eighth?

Only Books 2, 4, 5, 6, 8 I believe.

[bassio]

Only Books 2, 4, 5, 6, 8 I believe.

I like Lamento della ninfa and I want to give listening to other madrigals by Monteverdi (although, me, like Harry, am not a fan of opera) Any other "very" special Madrigals (from the eighth or otherwise)?
[apart from Ariana (which is a fragment of a lost opera I guess and not a madrigal), and which I still did not sink in]

BTW Anyone here heard the recent Rene Jacobs account of the eighth?
Interestingly enough.. Jacobs was the countertenor in the great account of the Lamento della ninfa led by Leonhardt. And after years, he now comes to lead his own record.

[FideLeo]

[apart from Ariana (which is a fragment of a lost opera I guess and not a madrigal), and which I still did not sink in]

There is actually Monteverdi's own madrigal arrangement of Arianna's lament.

From Answers website: http://www.answers.com/topic/l-arianna?cat=entertainment
"The lamento was preserved because Monteverdi later re-published it as a standalone piece in 1623. He also wrote two re-arrangements: one as a five-voice madrigal, published as part of his Sixth Book of Madrigals in 1614, and one with a new religious text in Latin, "Pianto della Madonna", published in his collection Selva morale e spirituale in 1641."

[bassio]

Recommendations please. What is your favorite works of these? And the respective recommended recordings.  0:)

[Morigan]

L'Orfeo is probably the most "popular" Monteverdi opera that survived time. There's also Il Ritorno d'Ulysse alla Patria. I don't have particular recording in mind, but I seem to remember there are DVD suggestions in the Opera DVD thread.

[val]

Orfeo is Monteverdi's first opera, and shows the influence of his dramatic Madrigals. But Il Rittorno d'Ulisse in Patria and La Coronazione di Poppea (it seems that only some of the music is from Monteverdi) are modern operas, very theatrical.

My favorite Orfeo is the one of Harnoncourt (first version, with Kozma and Berberian).
Ulisse has a very good version directed by Rene Jacobs, with Pregardien and a very impressive Bernarda Fink.

Regarding Poppea, Harnoncourt with Donath, Berberian and Söderstrom, is extraordinary.

[FideLeo]

http://www.youtube.com/v/m6JOaxyl8J4

[asin]B0046CUK4Y[/asin]

Like one of my favourite recordings of this music (cond. by Ralf Otto), Pluhar finished the whole set on one CD (plus a bonus DVD).  It's a jog! 

[Bogey]

Snapped up a trifecta of Monte recordings tonight:



Playing the one above....outstanding!

and these two:

[Drasko]

Missa in illo Tempore

Does anyone have any strong preferences when it comes to recordings? I was considering Herreweghe or The Sixteen (those two I can get most easily).

[FideLeo]

I was considering Herreweghe or The Sixteen (those two I can get most easily).

Probably better than ones from 'Baroque' conductors (eg. Robert King, Masaki Suzuki) anyway?

[Josquin des Prez]

The Missa in illo Tempore isn't Baroque, its in full Renaissance style, after Nicolas Gombert, who's probably one of the most hard core contrapuntist of his day (a significant choice for Monteverdi to base his mass on).

[Drasko]

The Missa in illo Tempore isn't Baroque ...

I'm pretty sure we already had gotten that. That's why FideLeo comented that conductors/groups I was considering (Herreweghe & The Sixteen) are probably better choice than conductors who specialize mostly in baroque, like King and Suzuki. Now that we got comprehension matters out of picture do you have preferred recording?

[Sid]

I borrowed Monteverdi's Vespers of 1610 from the library last week and heard it for the first time, & I was totally gobsmacked!!! What an amazing work - beautiful, innovative, unpredictable, perfectly crafted (I could go on and on). The recording I have been listening to is the one with Rinaldo Alessandrini at the helm on the Naive label. The counterpoint in this work, the odd harmonies and the imaginative use of the instruments and voices are unlike anything I've heard ever before. There were a number of performances of this work in Sydney last year for it's 500th anniversary which I missed out on for a number of reasons, the main one being that I wasn't ready. I was a bit daunted by the complexity of this music. Now I regret not going, because I'm totally taken aback by this masterpiece now.

I particularly like Monteverdi's use of an "echo" effect in a number of the sections, particularly in the concluding 2nd Magnificat, which is truly magnificent & more. Most composers might do a handful of interesting things within the one work, but Monteverdi constantly hands out these little pearls to the listener. There are dozens, if not hundreds of moments of pure genius in this music. The only other time I've wondered whether music is actually humanly possible to compose was when listening to Beethoven's late quartets, and Monteverdi's Vespers are definitely in that high echelon. Apart from those works by Beethoven, Monteverdi's Vespers beat anything else that I have heard hands down. But I have much to discover yet - J. S. Bach's Mass in B minor, Palestrina's masses and Haydn's The Creation are all on my hit-list now. The latter is actually coming up in live performance here in Sydney at the end of May, I'll definitely borrow that as well before going to the concert. Over the years, I've mainly stuck to music composed after 1800 or so, and going back like this has been pure joy. So much great things to discover!...

[Mandryka]

I borrowed Monteverdi's Vespers of 1610 from the library last week and heard it for the first time, & I was totally gobsmacked!!! What an amazing work - beautiful, innovative, unpredictable, perfectly crafted (I could go on and on). The recording I have been listening to is the one with Rinaldo Alessandrini at the helm on the Naive label. The counterpoint in this work, the odd harmonies and the imaginative use of the instruments and voices are unlike anything I've heard ever before. There were a number of performances of this work in Sydney last year for it's 500th anniversary which I missed out on for a number of reasons, the main one being that I wasn't ready. I was a bit daunted by the complexity of this music. Now I regret not going, because I'm totally taken aback by this masterpiece now.

I particularly like Monteverdi's use of an "echo" effect in a number of the sections, particularly in the concluding 2nd Magnificat, which is truly magnificent & more. Most composers might do a handful of interesting things within the one work, but Monteverdi constantly hands out these little pearls to the listener. There are dozens, if not hundreds of moments of pure genius in this music. The only other time I've wondered whether music is actually humanly possible to compose was when listening to Beethoven's late quartets, and Monteverdi's Vespers are definitely in that high echelon. Apart from those works by Beethoven, Monteverdi's Vespers beat anything else that I have heard hands down. But I have much to discover yet - J. S. Bach's Mass in B minor, Palestrina's masses and Haydn's The Creation are all on my hit-list now. The latter is actually coming up in live performance here in Sydney at the end of May, I'll definitely borrow that as well before going to the concert. Over the years, I've mainly stuck to music composed after 1800 or so, and going back like this has been pure joy. So much great things to discover!...

Yes  Monteverdi is better better than Bach . . . for opera 

You may like Monteverdi's other religious work. And the madrigals, and Tancredi of course. And the operas. Some favourite recordings:



[asin]B00004SRGC[/asin] (for the madrigals with Cueonod)
[asin]B000L438ZY[/asin]
[asin]B000F3T3CI[/asin]
[asin]B00019HP1M[/asin]
[asin]1561270539[/asin]

[karlhenning]

Yes  Monteverdi is better better than Bach . . . for opera 

I sort of 'vote with my feet' . . . I listen to the Vespro della Beata Vergine much oftener than I do the Mass in b minor.

[Sid]

@ Mandryka -

Thanks for your excellent recommendations - you sure know your Monteverdi! The 2 disc set of Poppea & the madrigals looks like a very good deal - I'll see if I can get it. I'm always into something with some "extras" and bonus tracks. The downside with these budget sets is that they have no libretto, which is important for me when I'm listening to opera (which I rarely do, it takes an effort to understand what is being sung, the plot, etc.). Anyway, maybe I can get the libretto online.

I actually do have a disc of Monteverdi's Tasso Madrigals on the Brilliant Label (also directed by Alessandrini). That was my first substantial exposure to Monteverdi, and I liked them a lot, but the Vespers have grabbed me even more (perhaps because there are instruments in that, not only voices). As I wrote in my earlier post, I'm still a bit of a novice in the choral/vocal area. In recent years, I have heard for the first time choral works by guys like Vivaldi, Mozart, Byrd, Tallis, Victoria, Handel, Faure, Ligeti, Lauridsen, Whitacre, Arvo Part, Bruckner, Gabrieli, Gounod, Puccini, Verdi, etc. My next step is get into more of the seminal works - next up will be Beethoven (Missa Solemnis), J. S. Bach (Mass in B minor), Haydn (The Creation), Palestrina's masses & I also want to explore other Renaissance composers like Lassus and Ockeghem...

[Sid]

I sort of 'vote with my feet' . . . I listen to the Vespro della Beata Vergine much oftener than I do the Mass in b minor.

I'll have to reserve my judgement in comparing Monteverdi's Vespers with J. S. Bach's Mass in B minor (I've only heard excerpts from the latter, but I plan to hear it soon). In terms of comparing their styles in a general way (even though it's difficult to do as Monteverdi came before Bach), I l ike Monteverdi & the other Italians more than Bach. There seems to be more "warmth" in the Italian style - & I include Handel in this as well, because he lived & worked in Italy for a number of years, and I can clearly hear how the Italian style rubbed off on him also...

[The new erato]

I sort of 'vote with my feet' . . . I listen to the Vespro della Beata Vergine much oftener than I do the Mass in b minor.

But they are so differtent. The one so incenseladen, mystically celebratory Catholic, the other so structured and fundamentally Prothestant (despite of course being part of the Catholic Lithurgy).

[Mandryka]

Book 4 of the Madrigals is really special for me -- beautiful a capella songs. I know them through Leppard's recording with the Glyndbourne chorus, including Bob Tear -- the record has been sending me in ecstasy recently.

But surely there must be a good HIP version by now? There must have been discoveries about Monteverdi performance style, even for unaccompanied music like this, which have inspired fresh interpretations over the past 20 year. My response to HIP Monteverdi has been mixed -- Ensemble Elyma's recordings have been very rewarding I think (maybe the best Poppea on record?). But they haven't recorded a Bk 4 for the madrigals. People have mentioned Alessandrini's in this thread, but is it good?

Is there are really successful, passionate, beautiful, HIP Bk 4 on record?

By the way, for the Vespers I continue to be just overwhelmed by Jurgen Jurgen's first recording -- not the one he made with Harnoncourt. I've just bought Ensemble Elyma's but haven't really given it the time to develop a view.