Arrange These Scandinavian Composers: True Excitement!

[Cato]

No voting, plus or minus!       

Just arrange this list of Scandinavian composers!   Start with the one you like most, and end with the one to whose music you solemnly intone: "Anathema sit!"    

Or end with the one whose music you like somewhat!   

I am interested in your opinions as to why someone deserves top spot, or bottom spot!

Feel free just to use the numbers for your listing!

In alphabetical order:

1.  Kalevi Aho

2.  Karl Birger-Blomdahl

3.  Rued Langgaard   

4.  Magnus Lindberg

5.  Per Nørgård

6.  Allan Pettersson   

7.  E. Rautavaara 

8.  Poul Ruders 

9.  Kaija Saariaho   

10.  Aulis Sallinen

11.  Esa-Pekka Salonen

12.  Dag Wiren

[eyeresist]

!

[Lethevich]

Okay, I'll throw you a bone To be honest half of the list don't interest me, but of the ones I like or know reasonably well:

=1 Rued Langgaard
=1 Per Nørgård
2 Allan Pettersson
3 Dag Wiren
4 Rautavaara

Langgaard is easy to dismiss for too many reasons to mention, but I find that some his music, especially the symphonies, has a touch of greatness to it. No masterpieces, they are too quirky and individual, but there's a lot of "meat" to the music, beautiful melodies and complex interactions which reward close listening, and are equally enjoyable just to passively experience.

Nørgård is interesting for his individuality, I find his music refreshing in its total lack of post-modern or popular elements. It's almost alientatingly serious in its consistently well-thought out methods, but at the same time offers great listens and a sense that the composer isn't writing music for the sake of it - that each work has had directed towards it a substantial level consideration on the composer's part, including its place in his ouvere, which can make listening from piece to piece enriching in a way that doing the same with - say - late Rautavaara is not.

Pettersson mines a narrow vein, but as with Langgaard the sheer content on offer in his symphonies is impressive. I find his more neglected early and late symphonies to be almost as fine as the middle ones, but with slightly different aims. His other music has plenty of high-points as well. I try to ignore an "emotional" reaction to the music because I feel that it greatly helps me come to terms with what an impressive architectural composer Pettersson is. He's a master of small effects within large spans - a battery of percussion here, an aching melody there, everything working towards producing cohesive flow within sometimes enormous works: a real symphonic composer.

Wirén I enjoy on a stylistic level - I adore this style of 'hearty' neoclassicism (i.e. lacking the whimsy of Les Six, or the austerity of Stravinsky). He's a fine craftsman, but it's the soundworld he writes in that I return for, not neccesserally the composer himself.

Rautavaara is perhaps the opposite to the way I describe Langgaard - his later works are written in a vein that is very keen to be taken seriously, yet when I listen closely I don't find quite the content that I wish for. But it's fine music and enjoyable at its best. His early to middle works are more creative, but I still hear them as isolated constructs rather than a fully coherent body of work.

[snyprrr]

It's not really fair, because, as you know, the aspiration of every Great Scandinavian Composer is to sound like every other GSC, so, either they all tend to lump at the top, or bottom, depending on one's opinion of them as a lot.

Blomdahl? Koch? The other guy? Can't tell apart, but I like it!


Ruders is the only one I didn't really like so much. Haven't really gone for Rued yet. Otherwise, they're all... 'there', haha! Sorry, can't help you!!

[snyprrr]

Besides,... it's STILL to much work, haha!!



Plus or minus indeed, haha!!

[DieNacht]

1. Nørgård - because of the extremely varied scope of his oeuvre
2. Pettersson
3. Saariaho
4  Langgaard
5  Rautavaara
6. Ruders - some fine works, but also a lot of rather empty effects to my ears
7  Aho (haven´t explored that much, didn´t like some of his symphonies, but there must be a lot of interest)
8. KB Blomdahl - quite a few lesser known, fine instrumental works
9. Wiren - Still have to explore his symphonies, apparently a bit too neoclassical (?)
10. Lindberg.
11. Sallinen: haven´t been impressed by the symphonies I´ve heard
12. Salonen - did he write anything substantial ??   

Some I´d definitely include on a top-list would be Holmboe, Kokkonen, Valen and Leifs ... 

[Mirror Image]

No voting, plus or minus!       

Just arrange this list of Scandinavian composers!   Start with the one you like most, and end with the one to whose music you solemnly intone: "Anathema sit!"    

Or end with the one whose music you like somewhat!   

I am interested in your opinions as to why someone deserves top spot, or bottom spot!

Feel free just to use the numbers for your listing!

In alphabetical order:

1.  Kalevi Aho

2.  Karl Birger-Blomdahl

3.  Rued Langgaard   

4.  Magnus Lindberg

5.  Per Nørgård

6.  Allan Pettersson   

7.  E. Rautavaara 

8.  Poul Ruders 

9.  Kaija Saariaho   

10.  Aulis Sallinen

11.  Esa-Pekka Salonen

12.  Dag Wiren

From this list, Lindberg, Salonen, Rautavaara, Langgaard, and Pettersson are my favorites. Dag Wiren is a cool composer, but I'm honestly not interested in exploring the others except for Aho. Sallinen is proving to be an uninteresting composer after exploring 3 recordings of the CPO set so far. I'm still trying to like Saariaho, but it's pretty damn hard to when there seems to be nothing but smoke and mirrors with no kind of meat in the music. Norgard is a pretty cool composer, but I can only take him in doses. His Symphony No. 3 remains my favorite composition by him bar none. I've heard all of the other symphonies and many orchestral works, but the 3rd reigns supreme and is the most enjoyable for me. Ruders I have no interest in at all. Can't even name one piece by him, but I never bothered to remember the names anyway.

[Cato]

Okay, I'll throw you a bone To be honest half of the list don't interest me, but of the ones I like or know reasonably well

That is quite fine: I did not expect to find someone who is expert on each one of them, but wanted to see where I might spend my limited time and possibly money (if the local libraries have only a few of their CD's or none at all).

I know that Langgaard, Petterson, Wiren, and Nørgård have been praised here by various people, so I thought I would determine a hierarchy: many thanks to all for the comments so far!

Concerning Saariaho: I have only heard excerpts of her operas on the radio, and have a reaction similar to that of Mirror Image.  Still, she seems to have a following.

[Mn Dave]

I do not know, but at least this provides a list for future exploration.

[DieNacht]

I guess this a suitable opportunity to list some IMO most immediately attractive works:

Nørgård: Percussion Concerto, For A Change (Mortensen recording, definitely); 2nd Piano Sonata;
Pettersson: 8.symphony (Comissiona or T.Sanderling, not Segerstam. One of the very catchy works, Bolero-like and less frenetic than some of the others)
Saariaho: L´Aile des Songes, a very fresh and catchy flute concerto
Langgaard: I generally prefer the Stupel orchestral recordings - for instance Symphony nr.10
Rautavaara: the 3rd, Bruckneresque symphony, for instance (naxos recording)
Ruders: Piano Concerto. A rather lyrical and beautiful work

[DavidW]

Aulis Sallinen
Per Nørgård
Allan Pettersson 
E. Rautavaara
Magnus Lindberg

Those are just for the ones I know.

[Cato]

Again, many thanks for the input!

A more difficult question:

Who might be the worthiest to wear the mantels of Nielsen and Sibelius?

[Lethevich]

For me Nørgård is an easy pick using that criteria, although I would add Holmboe too, list be damned

[DieNacht]

For me Nørgård is an easy pick using that criteria,

I´d probably agree, because of the progression in the oeuvre and his ambitious intellectual pursuits. That said, a lot of his works are Sfinx-like in their non-approachable or "ugly"/"alternatively beautiful" content. In a way the work mirrors a lot of the concerns and influences of the age 1955 - 2010, as a picture of our times, including the current globalization ...

As regards such a large and diversified oeuvre, only Stravinsky comes to mind as an equal among the more recent composers ...

[DavidW]

Who might be the worthiest to wear the mantels of Nielsen and Sibelius?

Sallinen is closer to their sound world, but Norgard being more progressive might be a better fit.

[Mirror Image]

That is quite fine: I did not expect to find someone who is expert on each one of them, but wanted to see where I might spend my limited time and possibly money (if the local libraries have only a few of their CD's or none at all).

I know that Langgaard, Petterson, Wiren, and Nørgård have been praised here by various people, so I thought I would determine a hierarchy: many thanks to all for the comments so far!

Concerning Saariaho: I have only heard excerpts of her operas on the radio, and have a reaction similar to that of Mirror Image.  Still, she seems to have a following.

I highly recommend Lindberg and Salonen. Have you heard Salonen's Helix? This might be a good place to start. For Lindberg, I prefer his more recent music to his earlier, more avant-garde style. His music nowadays (late 90s up to now) has more substance and just doesn't sound like endless splodges of notes with no real purpose. The Violin Concerto, Clarinet Concerto, Graffiti, and Seht die Sonne are definitely worth checking out.

[Cato]

I highly recommend Lindberg and Salonen. Have you heard Salonen's Helix? This might be a good place to start. For Lindberg, I prefer his more recent music to his earlier, more avant-garde style. His music nowadays (late 90s up to now) has more substance and just doesn't sound like endless splodges of notes with no real purpose. The Violin Concerto, Clarinet Concerto, Graffiti, and Seht die Sonne are definitely worth checking out.

No, I have not heard those, but that is why I started this topic, so that I could search my local library for the top recommendations.

It is an interesting thing: conductor-composers remain a rarity.  Is there any opinion as to whether Salonen might approach Mahlerian heights?