Mahler before 1970: Your Preferences

Started by Archaic Torso of Apollo, September 06, 2011, 06:25:49 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Martin Lind

1. Abravanel
2. Abravanel, Bernstein
3. Abravanel
4. Szell
5. Bernstein
6. Szell, Abravanel
7. Abravanel
8. Abravanel
9. Abravanel

Abravanel was the first Mahler cycle besides Bernstein and it is the better one  IMHO. Some of these recordings may be a bit later then 1970.

mjwal

There are numerous pre-70s recordings of M's Lieder, hitherto unmentioned - recordings by Schlusnus, Poell etc/Prohaska, Ferrier, Forrester, Baker, even FiDi, Ludwig, you name 'em. Ditto DLvdE, Walter/VPO, Schuricht, Klemperer 1 and 2, van Beinum, Jochum...
1. Mitropoulos NYPO/Ancerl
2. Scherchen, Klemperer
3. Adler (either, but prefer the studio), Scherchen 1950 - both have the inestimable Rössl-Majdan - and Barbirolli/Hallé
4. Walter/Seefried 1950 or Walter/Schwarzkopf 1960.
5. Mitropoulos/Scherchen
6. Mitropoulos NYPO or Köln
7. Rosbaud, Scherchen or Horenstein
8.  I don't really respond to it; perhaps a new=listenable transfer of the Mitropoulos
9. Ancerl or Rosbaud
10. Adagio: Sebastian or Mitropoulos
I would be so happy if Mitropoulos had recorded them all. His NYPO recording of #3 is spoilt by cuts and singing in English, I haven't heard the Köln (his very last performance) yet. Ancerl only did the two, more's the pity, but I believe there is a Rosbaud #6 and perhaps more waiting in the wings.
The Violin's Obstinacy

It needs to return to this one note,
not a tune and not a key
but the sound of self it must depart from,
a journey lengthily to go
in a vein it knows will cripple it.
...
Peter Porter

Roberto

I don't have many Mahler before 1970 but I think the 4th with Mengelberg/COA has to be part of all serious collection. And there is an interesting recording with Oskar Fried from 1924 released by Naxos (acoustical recording). I don't have it but I've heard part of it.

DavidW

I thought that I didn't like Horenstein, but you guys despise him so much that most of y'all would rather not list anything for the 8th than list Horenstein's legendary recording! :D  wow just wow :o

Archaic Torso of Apollo

Quote from: DavidW on September 07, 2011, 05:09:19 AM
I thought that I didn't like Horenstein, but you guys despise him so much that most of y'all would rather not list anything for the 8th than list Horenstein's legendary recording! :D  wow just wow :o

Yeah, we've all been reading the Hurwitzer  :D

Actually I like some Horenstein recordings. He was often let down though by poor playing and sound, so listening can be a frustrating experience.

Interesting to see a mention of that Mahler pioneer, F. Charles Adler. And who could forget such early Mahlerists as Eduard Flipse (anyone heard his 6th?), and that fine gentleman Viscount Hidemaro Konoye, who led the first recording of the 4th Symphony.
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

DavidW

I think the 8th benefited the most from modern sonics and very careful engineering and microphone placement.  Not that I'm an audiophile... ;D

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: DavidW on September 07, 2011, 05:09:19 AM
I thought that I didn't like Horenstein...

You confuse me, David. You say you don't like Horenstein but you chose his Fourth and Eighth?? So which is it: love or hate?

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Jay F

1-3. Bernstein
4. Mengelberg
5. Solti
6-10. Bernstein

eyeresist


Looks like I need to hear some Scherchen.

val

1 -  Horenstein (LSO) or Walter (Columbia Orchestra)

2 - Klemperer (Philharmonia) or Walter (NYP)

3 - Charles Adler (Konzertverein Orchestra)

4 - Szell (Cleveland)

5 - Solti (Chicago)

6 - Bernstein (NYP)

7 - Bernstein (NYP)

8 - Solti (Chicago) or Kubelik (BRO)

9 - Ancerl (CPO)

Renfield

#30
Quote from: Drasko on September 06, 2011, 01:01:34 PM
Maybe even more interesting would be to set cut off point earlier, probably pre-Berstein New York cycle because those recordings get usually mentioned as start of Mahler recording boom.

Agreed! For that reason, I'll include a second choice in brackets, using 1965 (inclusive) as a cut-off, where applicable.

This is an interesting thread! :D


My choices:


1: Kubelik, Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra (1967) [Mitropoulos, Minneapolis Symphony Orchestra (1940)]

2: Klemperer, Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra (1965)

3: Bernstein, New York Philharmonic (1961)

4: Szell, Cleveland Orchestra (1965)

5: Barbirolli, New Philharmonia Orchestra (1969) [Walter, New York Philharmonic (1947)]

6: Szell, Cleveland Orchestra (1967) [Mitropoulos, New York Philharmonic (1955)]

7: Bernstein, New York Philharmonic (1965)

8: Horenstein, London Symphony Orchestra (1959)

9: Walter, Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra (1936)

Das Lied: Ludwig, Wunderlich, Klemperer, (New) Philharmonia Orchestra (1966) [Ferrier, Patzak, Walter, VPO (1952 Live)]

Daverz

I'm surprised no one mentioned Kletzki's 4th with Emmy Loose.

Renfield

Quote from: Daverz on September 11, 2011, 08:07:36 AM
I'm surprised no one mentioned Kletzki's 4th with Emmy Loose.

For me, that's because its existence had completely eluded me until now. Duly noted! :)

DavidW

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on September 07, 2011, 03:26:27 PM
You confuse me, David. You say you don't like Horenstein but you chose his Fourth and Eighth?? So which is it: love or hate?

Sarge

Sarge are there only two choices for you: love or hate? :D  I dislike Horenstein, but there are not many choices in historical Mahler recordings, and for those two Horenstein fits the bill.  Adding in the plethora of recordings after 1970 I can throw Horenstein under the bus and never look back!  But this poll is much more restrictive.

No my choice is perfectly logical.  It's everyone else that has to explain themselves: if y'all like Horenstein why are so many of you just leaving the 8th blank?  I'm not a fan, but I will admit that his recording of the 8th in the Royal Albert Hall is one of the top choices from that era.

Renfield

Quote from: DavidW on September 11, 2011, 09:51:13 AM
Sarge are there only two choices for you: love or hate? :D  I dislike Horenstein, but there are not many choices in historical Mahler recordings, and for those two Horenstein fits the bill.  Adding in the plethora of recordings after 1970 I can throw Horenstein under the bus and never look back!  But this poll is much more restrictive.

No my choice is perfectly logical.  It's everyone else that has to explain themselves: if y'all like Horenstein why are so many of you just leaving the 8th blank?  I'm not a fan, but I will admit that his recording of the 8th in the Royal Albert Hall is one of the top choices from that era.

?!

Where's Sarge's bazooka when you need it?


Re: the 8th, people may be leaving it blank because a) they feel it only works in hi-fi, or b) they just don't like the piece.

Daverz

Quote from: Renfield on September 11, 2011, 09:24:29 AM
For me, that's because its existence had completely eluded me until now. Duly noted! :)

The latest release is the one below, though I think the remasters are whatever was lying around already.  More importantly, you also get a DLvdE with two male voices: Fischer-Dieskau and Murray Dickie.

[asin]B000B668U4[/asin]


DavidW

Quote from: Renfield on September 11, 2011, 09:54:23 AM
?!

Where's Sarge's bazooka when you need it?

But it's a fact!  The Mahler recordings didn't really explode in numbers until more recent times.


QuoteRe: the 8th, people may be leaving it blank because a) they feel it only works in hi-fi, or b) they just don't like the piece.

That's a shame if (b) is true (but understandable), what kind of Maherlites are those? :-\  But regarding (a), I don't know what you mean.  Wouldn't you play all of your cds on your hi-fi?  What does it mean for something to not "work in hi-fi"? ???

Drasko

Quote from: DavidW on September 11, 2011, 10:02:10 AM
That's a shame if (b) is true (but understandable), what kind of Maherlites are those? :-\ 

Mahler-lites, like me.

Renfield

Quote from: DavidW on September 11, 2011, 10:02:10 AM
But it's a fact!  The Mahler recordings didn't really explode in numbers until more recent times.


That's a shame if (b) is true (but understandable), what kind of Maherlites are those? :-\  But regarding (a), I don't know what you mean.  Wouldn't you play all of your cds on your hi-fi?  What does it mean for something to not "work in hi-fi"? ???

Note how I didn't say 'work in the hi fi'; I meant 'work in high fidelity audio'.

In other words, I'm sure there are people who will not acknowledge a recording of the 8th that is not in glorious modern sound, no matter how well-performed, or how good the reading. That's distinct from being a Mahler-lite!

(Love the term BTW, Drasko. ;D)


As for the other comment, you're right in that there was an explosion in the number of recordings, but you are not right in saying "there are not many choices in historical recordings", unless by 'many' you mean 'many hundreds'. There's probably more choice in pre-1970 historical Mahler recordings than there is for many, even semi-famous composers' entire catalogues!

Amfortas

1 Horenstein/LSO
2 Klemperer (EMI Studio or live from same period)
3 Horenstein/LSO
4 Walter/NYP
5 Solti/Chicago
6 Bernstein/NYP
7 No real preference
8 Bernstein LSO (imho, a great performance)
9 Klemperer/ New Phil EMI (a towering, shattering performance)
10 no preference
DAS LIED: Klemperer EMI/Ludwig/Wunderlich
''Better pass boldly into that other world, in the full glory of some passion, than fade and wither dismally with age.'' - James Joyce (The Dead)