Stanley Bate(1911-1959)

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Who knows.....if I listen to York Bowen often enough...........

  * needs to lie down * 

[vandermolen]

OT

Enthusiastic review of York Bowen on Musicweb today.

Who knows? I might have to eat humble pie too. 

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2011/Sept11/Bowen_sys_CHAN10670.htm

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

OT

Enthusiastic review of York Bowen on Musicweb today.

Who knows? I might have to eat humble pie too. 

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2011/Sept11/Bowen_sys_CHAN10670.htm

Thanks for that link, Jeffrey. I like York Bowen's music a lot, even with the Scottish cavalry riding rough-shod over my love. 

[Dundonnell]

I freely concede that it is entirely my own fault for introducing the name of York Bowen into a thread which is supposed to be about Stanley Bate

But let me be quite clear that I have no problem with people liking Bowen's music. I don't...but so what.

What I do have more of an issue with is the fact that over the last two or three years record companies have issued both Bowen's (currently) extant symphonies, all four piano concertos(No.3 in two separate versions), the violin concerto, the viola concerto, the horn concerto and a number of other orchestral pieces, ie virtually Bowen's entire orchestral output.

In that same time not a single piece of orchestral music composed by composers like Peter Racine Fricker, Iain Hamilton or William Wordsworth has been recorded. The orchestral music by composers like Benjamin Frankel, Daniel Jones, Robert Simpson, Humphrey Searle which has been released over the past decade or so was mostly recorded quite some time ago now.

In other words there is a marked preference for 'romantic' British music to the exclusion of rather 'tougher' stuff.

Again...I have no problem with modern  'romantic' music. I-obviously-love the music of Stanley Bate and Richard Arnell. But the balance is skewed to an unfair extent, I would argue.

....and it is ironic that this should be coming from someone who was (probably far too over-sensitively) upset when he was roundly abused on this forum and accused of wanting to put people off serialist composers in favour of tonalists

Anyway.....semi-rant over

[Albion]

But let me be quite clear that I have no problem with people liking Bowen's music. I don't...but so what.

I get a lot of enjoyment from Bowen's music, whether piano, chamber or orchestral - so, for me, the more the merrier! I quite agree, though, that there is a tendency for recording companies to 'fixate' on certain composers to the detriment of other, equally deserving, causes: Chandos surely have done Bax more-or-less to death (with more than a hint of some barrel-scraping) and I query the wisdom of Naxos trying to apparently record every last scrap of Alwyn. Dutton (fantastic though their ever-expanding catalogue of British music is) have not quite embraced the free-ranging spirit of Lyrita in it's heyday, but who knows what lies in store - every set of releases usually contains something surprising.

Bowen was something of a character and it is endearing to think that he did not take himself too seriously - according to Monica Watson, who lived with Bowen and his wife in the 1950s, he was a passionate maker of jam and "When he made a new batch of jam he put an opus number on it. If he had just written a piece, Op.127 for example, the jam would become Op.128". This perhaps explains a large proportion of the otherwise-unattributed opus numbers in his catalogue: he and his friends literally ate the evidence.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

This perhaps explains a large proportion of the otherwise-unattributed opus numbers in his catalogue: he and his friends literally ate the evidence.

P.S. Colin has a point - Bowen is certainly on the 'softer' side of Late Romanticism, and 'soft = popular' (not only with toilet paper). Though I 'do' rugged and tough, too (HB, anyone?), I happen to like the dreamers...

[Lethevich]

Bowen was something of a character and it is endearing to think that he did not take himself too seriously - according to Monica Watson, who lived with Bowen and his wife in the 1950s, he was a passionate maker of jam and "When he made a new batch of jam he put an opus number on it. If he had just written a piece, Op.127 for example, the jam would become Op.128". This perhaps explains a large proportion of the otherwise-unattributed opus numbers in his catalogue: he and his friends literally ate the evidence.

I think that Havergal Brian was a great fan of home-made condiments as well - perhaps this is the key to the British musical identity?

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I think that Havergal Brian was a great fan of home-made condiments as well - perhaps this is the key to the British musical identity?

Brian a composer of jamphonies? Never!

[Lethevich]

Brian a composer of jamphonies? Never!

The occasional trifle too

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

The occasional trifle too

Cheeky!

[Dundonnell]

Could I, very respectfully, point out that this thread regarding the British composer Stanley Bate is being derailed by discussion, first about York Bowen(which is my fault)
and, now, about jam and desserts

Please remove any further discussion of Bowen's jam or Brian's trifles to another thread. Thank you.

[Hattoff]

Removed for reasons of taste.

[Dundonnell]

Decency and an old-fashioned and thoroughly outdated Victorian sense of decorum inhibits me from making the response I would like to make

[thalbergmad]

In that same time not a single piece of orchestral music composed by composers like Peter Racine Fricker, Iain Hamilton or William Wordsworth has been recorded.

I am not sure why this is, but perhaps record companies want their sales of each CD to get into double figures

If there is a marked preference for "romantic" British music, I hope it continues a little longer to cover neglected composers.

Atonal lovers have more than enough to be going on with.

Thal

[Dundonnell]

Removed for reasons of taste.

...."taste....."     I smell a rat

[Dundonnell]

I am not sure why this is, but perhaps record companies want their sales of each CD to get into double figures

If there is a marked preference for "romantic" British music, I hope it continues a little longer to cover neglected composers.

Atonal lovers have more than enough to be going on with.

Thal

Of course...I fully accept that record companies need to make money and that what sells will largely(if not entirely!) determine what repertoire they choose to record.
But record companies-particularly these days the smaller companies- very frequently "take a punt" on particular composers or on particular pieces of music. A few years back now CPO got an Australian orchestra(the Queensland Symphony Orchestra) and a German conductor(Werner Andreas Albert) to record all the symphonies of Benjamin Frankel and got the BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra and Alun Francis to do the same for Humphrey Searle. Hyperion employed Vernon Handley to record all the Robert Simpson symphonies.
People said that Panufnik's symphonies would never be recorded as an integral set because "they would not sell" but CPO is currently using a Polish orchestra to record the lot.

Dutton have recorded most of the orchestral music written by David Matthews, including the first six of his seven symphonies. Now a lot of people would never have heard much if any of Matthews's music and it is certainly no less 'difficult' than that by Fricker, Hamilton or Wordsworth.

In any case, Wordsworth was not a serialist, Hamilton went through a 'serialist' phase but his earlier and later works are tonal and Fricker is only a serialist in a limited sense.
Would their music sell? I don't know. Probably not to any great extent....but, I suspect, more than double figures

I don't really expect a complete set of the symphonies of Arnold Cooke, Fricker, Hamilton or Wordsworth....although I would certainly buy them .....but if folks on here keep demanding more Havergal Brian on disc-as they do, quite rightly too-and Brian is by no means an 'easy' composer then I shall go on plugging the chaps I have mentioned

[Dundonnell]

Last night I opened up the first of the huge cardboard boxes from my attic and retrieved the first batch of the 110 tapes I need to digitise to unlock my British music collection.

The tapes appear perfectly preserved in very sturdy individual boxes. I was able to identify the tapes with the two Daniel Jones symphonies(Nos. 3 and 10), his Violin Concerto and Oratorio "St. Peter"- with more to come!

I am delighted to hear that you like cats   So do I. I have a large, playful male cat.

If you don't remove the photograph of York b***** Bowen from this Stanley Bate thread I shall give my cat free range access to the Daniel Jones tapes to unravel and play with as he will

[cilgwyn]

I'm just worried about what else you're cat might do to those tapes,knowing how some cats mark their territory!!!!! So it's coming down! I certainly can't take any more of it.
Although,on a more postive note,it has given me an idea for a new line in York Bowen horror masks,which I am hoping to have ready by Halloween. Hopefully,these will be more scary than the Frankenstein mask I wore to the fancy dress party last year which only seemed to frighten people when I took it off.

[Dundonnell]

 

[cilgwyn]

http://www.photographersdirect.com/buyers/stockphoto.aspimageid=2766985

Photographers direct have a very interesting photo of Stanley Bate and a seated Vaughan Williams (and some others).If anyone hasn't seen it,it certainly is worth seeing. I am a newbie to hyperlinks,so if this doesn't work,just google the site! Otherwise,Johan,"HE-E-L-P!"

Good luck with those tapes,Dundonnell.