Stanley Bate(1911-1959)

cilgwyn · October 10, 2011, 09:24:53 AM

Oh no! Just when I'm trying to save!

Albion · October 10, 2011, 09:48:24 AM

Quote from: cilgwyn on October 10, 2011, 09:24:53 AM
Oh no! Just when I'm trying to save!

"Come and buy, come and buy ..."

cilgwyn · October 10, 2011, 02:26:28 PM

It worked. Bate & Reizenstein hopped into the Dutton website shopping basket!

Sounds an intriguing combination? The only 'Reizenstein' I know are his 'Variations on the Lambeth Walk'!
The Holbrooke sounds intriguing,but hopefully,I can resist................for now!

cilgwyn · October 20, 2011, 05:21:41 AM

As they used to say in the old comics,Corrr! I can't get over how good the new Dutton cd of music by Bate & Reizenstein is. I do think that all this current obsession with obscure composers has gone a little too in the opposite direction to common sense (any thing obscure is good),but this really IS something. In fact,I can't get enough of it & the cd is currently on 'rpt all'. Marvellous,exciting music,superb playing & recording quality,to match. Everything on this cd is wonderful. Oh,and great cover 'artwork' & booklet notes,too. In fact,I'm so pleased,I've gone back to the Dutton site and ordered the Holbrooke cd as well & sent an email of thanks.

I don't expect the egotistical Holbrooke to be quite as good,but I quite like his quirky,although, uneven muse! And production standards like this DO get you wanting more.

Dundonnell · October 20, 2011, 07:44:10 AM

Dutton parcels obviously take longer to travel up to Scotland than to Wales

cilgwyn · October 20, 2011, 08:08:07 AM

I actually contacted Dutton yesterday about the cd,as I hadn't received it,but it arrived today! I WILL have to put this on again,just in case I wasn't caught up in the excitement of another newly unearthed obscurity. But,I will say,that it isn't often I'm so 'grabbed' by obscurities. And who is this fantastic pianist? I've never heard of him before,although I have a feeling you might have? Have you?

As to Unsung Composers. I get you're drift & thank you very much for 'referring me. I will think about it. The forum does seem to have livened up,remarkably, since you and Johan joined!!!! Meanwhile,in the absence of the remaining Daniel Jones symphonies,I will have another stiff drink!

or two

while you enjoy yours!

I think you will enjoy this cd. So far,this little collection of obscurities really DOES stand out!
Exciting....I think?

cilgwyn · October 21, 2011, 02:50:31 AM

The cd is STILL on 'repeat all'! This is fantastic,I don't want to take it off! Okay,maybe the Bate is the most individual of the two,if I HAVE to choose,but they're both so good. In fact,I really would like to hear more Reizenstein now. Nit picking aside,his Piano Concerto really is a barnstormer in the grand manner & I think Dutton were very wise to put it first,it makes a tremendous opener.
As to the Bate,I know this is hyperbole ( I suppose) but I really do now believe that this is the best British piano concerto I have ever heard & I find it quite astonishing that it has languished unheard for so long. Of course,I rate Bax's 'Winter Legends' very highly,so maybe my judgement is impaired (!),but having said that,much as I love the Bax work & believe it deserves better than it gets,this is INFINITELY more subtle!

As to Franz Reizenstein,more can be found here (IF the link works):

http://www.franzreizenstein.com/

The Sinfonietta is wonderful too. And I was just expecting a 'fill up'! Haunting melodies,a bit like early Bliss in few places,but Bate always has his own voice. (I need to spend more time absorbing these). And this is No 1? Hope the other one's extant. I shall look at the Bate work list now.
Outstanding!

vandermolen · October 21, 2011, 03:56:02 AM

Quote from: Dundonnell on October 20, 2011, 07:44:10 AM
Dutton parcels obviously take longer to travel up to Scotland than to Wales

Post is slow to East Sussex too - nothing received yet.

Dundonnell · October 21, 2011, 04:15:03 AM

Quote from: cilgwyn on October 21, 2011, 02:50:31 AM
The cd is STILL on 'repeat all'! This is fantastic,I don't want to take it off! Okay,maybe the Bate is the most individual of the two,if I HAVE to choose,but they're both so good. In fact,I really would like to hear more Reizenstein now. Nit picking aside,his Piano Concerto really is a barnstormer in the grand manner & I think Dutton were very wise to put it first,it makes a tremendous opener.
As to the Bate,I know this is hyperbole ( I suppose) but I really do now believe that this is the best British piano concerto I have ever heard & I find it quite astonishing that it has languished unheard for so long. Of course,I rate Bax's 'Winter Legends' very highly,so maybe my judgement is impaired (!),but having said that,much as I love the Bax work & believe it deserves better than it gets,this is INFINITELY more subtle!

As to Franz Reizenstein,more can be found here (IF the link works):

http://www.franzreizenstein.com/

The Sinfonietta is wonderful too. And I was just expecting a 'fill up'! Haunting melodies,a bit like early Bliss in few places,but Bate always has his own voice. (I need to spend more time absorbing these). And this is No 1? Hope the other one's extant. I shall look at the Bate work list now.
Outstanding!

Reizenstein's Violin Concerto is available now....and his Cantata "Voices of Night" will be soon

No Dutton package delivered yet

cilgwyn · October 21, 2011, 05:18:40 AM

Very,very,very,very,VERY exciting release,to put it mildly!
On a more trivial level,I suppose,I do love that striking 'cover art' with that 'Orwellian' eye. A very arresting image,which prepares you very nicely,for the even more arresting musical content of the cd inside.
I really haven't been as excited about a 'neglected' composer cd in years. And,the Reizenstein,as well,to be honest. (And the only bit of Reizenstein I knew,up till now,were his 'Variations on a Lambeth walk'!)

cilgwyn · October 21, 2011, 05:33:03 AM

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh! If I buy the Lyrita cd of Reizenstein I'm forced to buy a certain other composer,playing music 'wot he rote',whom I have to admit I can't,for the life of me, get quite so excited about!

Ah,for the original release!

Lethevich · October 21, 2011, 07:00:05 AM

While we're on a diversion (I doubt a seperate thread for the composer would get much attention), the following disc I enjoyed a lot:

All three instruments appear to be played by the same fellow. It's sometimes a little stern, as solo string music is wont to be, but has that an appealing, dazzling neoclassical style. It's perhaps less friendly music than the music of Arnold Cooke, to make the obvious comparison, but still rather imaginative and impressive within its somewhat constrained idiom.

The main thing not making me explore further his how expensive the recordings are - so many are OOP and I am not going to pay the premium.

Lethevich · October 21, 2011, 09:17:08 AM

Giving the 4th a listen - it's fun how expectations can be upturned. My irrational reaction upon seeing the piece's number and the final moderato was to see whether any RVW 4th and 6th comparisons were apt (it was a blind listen, I'll take any flotage I can find, however spurious).

It turns out that the work was nothing like I had expected - I felt that it might be a bit grim, but it retains much of the joyful, slightly maniacal qualities of the 3rd, albeit in a less Sibelian/Waltonian inexorable forward movement. It's rare to hear such a joyously bubbling "moderato" movement as the one which concluded the piece, and it by no means felt "slow", or to be attempting an extra-musical statement. It was just rather beautiful to hear the orchestra alternate between intimate song-like sections, and shimmering outbursts. Only at the very ending of the final movement did I feel that the composer was relying a little on his compatriots, with mild shades of Holst and RVW.

As with the 3rd, I feel that there is a lot of content here, but its structure allows for a more thoughtful work overall. I'm not yet sure whether this lack of directness offers more depth or perhaps simply it's a less white-hot piece in its inspiration? I don't find Bate to be the most "deep" of composers (a less naturally-flowing style than some hurts this the most) so maybe surface is important as I admire in the 3rd. But either way the 4th is a wonderful symphony, and the sense of ambition and determination that I find especially appealing in Bate's music makes it a very fine work.

cilgwyn · October 22, 2011, 12:57:29 AM

Strange! Slightly (!) off topic,I know & apologies for this,but I'm REALLY enjoying the new Dutton Holbrooke cd. I must admit,I do find the horribly,(horridly?), egotistical Holbrooke strangely intriguing!

He certainly was a colourful character,he knew lots of interesting people,had a colourful life patronised by the wealthy Howard de Walden &,crucially,for me,lived in Wales (for a while) where he was inspired by some of it's culture,although not in the nationalistic sense,like Joseph Parry or Morfydd Owen,of course. He also could be quite an interesting composer,although when I buy a Holbrooke cd,I often find my initial enthusiasm gradually wearing off!

The problem for me is not that his music is just uneven,but like that fellow in IRR Magazine,I find JH allot stronger on atmosphere and colour than substance. A typical Holbrooke score involves allot of colourful,atmospheric mood setting,dramatic climaxes and often gorgeous and exciting orchestration,but also an unsettling feeling of,'Yeah great,but where the b***** h*** is all this going?'
So,I was a bit suprised to find that this is probably THE most enjoyable Holbrooke cd I have encountered,to date. The ballet 'Aucassin and Nicolette' while not exactly the most original music in the world is delightfully scored,but the real winners come from about track 9 onwards,the 'Scene:Allegro' & Pas de deux'. These really ARE gorgeously orchestrated. Holbrooke REALLY could orchestrate when he got the muse! Finally,the Saxophone Concerto,an absolute winner,as they say & beautifully scored. An absolute delight. The sound of that Saxophone against some of Holbrookes most shimmering orchestration is utterly captivating. What a pity he didn't get to try his luck at some movie scoring.
My estimation of the,undoubtedly,intriguing Holbrooke has,unexpectedly, shot up! Need I add,Duttons production values are all up to their usual stunning standards. Oh,and the 'Richard Rodney Bennett' Dances are wonderful too!

Lethevich · October 22, 2011, 05:36:43 AM

Re. Holbrooke - take heart, he may not be quite on the level of Bantock, but he's a step above Wallace

I too find myself admiring the effort or idiom of a composer more than their actual music in one or two cases.

Lethevich · October 22, 2011, 07:34:24 AM

Off-topic composers mentioned on ~~this~~ the last page: Widor, Converse, Holbrooke (lots), Bennett, Benjamin, Corp, Hurd, Moeran, Ireland, Reizenstein (lots), Godfrey, Bowen (although you were careful not to invoke his name out loud), Holst, Vaughan Williams, Sibelius, Walton.

Poor Stanley, but typical GMG

Christo · November 07, 2011, 10:52:16 AM

Still waiting for the new Dutton to arrive - with piano concertos by Bate and Reizenstein - I've been playing the Third and Fourth symphonies again. I find both very satisfying, highly impressive works. About the best newcomers I've heard in years. Sorry - I guess I told you so before.

Anyhow, I have good reasons to be intrigued by a side remark in Michael Barlow and Robert Barnett's substantial essay on the composer, STANLEY BATE - Forgotten International Composer, to be found at Musicweb: http://www.musicweb-international.com/bate/index.htm.

Toward the end it says: "Glanville-Hicks claimed he wrote a dozen or more symphonies".

Could it really be?

Christo · November 10, 2011, 10:55:50 PM

Quote from: cilgwyn on October 21, 2011, 02:50:31 AM
The cd is STILL on 'repeat all'! This is fantastic,I don't want to take it off! Okay,maybe the Bate is the most individual of the two,if I HAVE to choose,but they're both so good. In fact,I really would like to hear more Reizenstein now. Nit picking aside,his Piano Concerto really is a barnstormer in the grand manner & I think Dutton were very wise to put it first,it makes a tremendous opener.
As to the Bate,I know this is hyperbole ( I suppose) but I really do now believe that this is the best British piano concerto I have ever heard & I find it quite astonishing that it has languished unheard for so long. Of course,I rate Bax's 'Winter Legends' very highly,so maybe my judgement is impaired (!),but having said that,much as I love the Bax work & believe it deserves better than it gets,this is INFINITELY more subtle!
The Sinfonietta is wonderful too. And I was just expecting a 'fill up'! Haunting melodies,a bit like early Bliss in few places,but Bate always has his own voice. (I need to spend more time absorbing these). And this is No 1? Hope the other one's extant. I shall look at the Bate work list now. Outstanding!

My copy arrived yesterday, am playing it now and can hear very well what you mean. Terrific disc!

Christo · November 13, 2011, 11:06:31 AM

Quote from: cilgwyn on October 21, 2011, 02:50:31 AM
The cd is STILL on 'repeat all'! This is fantastic,I don't want to take it off! ... As to the Bate,I know this is hyperbole ( I suppose) but I really do now believe that this is the best British piano concerto I have ever heard & I find it quite astonishing that it has languished unheard for so long. ...
The Sinfonietta is wonderful too. And I was just expecting a 'fill up'! Haunting melodies,a bit like early Bliss in few places,but Bate always has his own voice. (I need to spend more time absorbing these). And this is No 1? Hope the other one's extant. I shall look at the Bate work list now. Outstanding!

Enjoying a similar happy experience these days and in the meantime I'm haunted by some of his melodies - particularly the themes of th concerto's slow movement and grandiose finale. People may regard Bate a `derivative' composer, but then, he's the best derivative composer I've heard in years.

By chance, I typed his name in the search engine of Youtube - to find, to my suprise, his own performances of the second and third piano concertos there! Here's Bate as a soloist in his own Piano Concerto No. 2 in C major, Op. 28 (completed May 1940) - with the BBC SO under Stanford Robinson, a radio broadcast from 1958. To hear the same `grandiose' themes from the composer himself is quite an experience, IMHO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljA7d_PC2p0

And here's Bate playing the US premiere of his Piano Concerto No. 3, Op. 61 (completed August 1952) with the Oklahoma City SO under Guy Fraser Harrison, again a recording from 1958: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJABhvxdg0E

Dundonnell · November 13, 2011, 02:11:04 PM

You do know that you can download both these performances of the Bates Piano Concertos Nos. 2 and 3 over at UC, don't you, Johan?