Star Trek vs. Star Wars: The Poll to End All Polls

[Karl Henning]

What movie blew you completely away when you were 11? For me it was Star Wars. What else could it have been?

FWIW, I was 18, but yes, being in the cinema for that was great fun.

[Biffo]

What movie blew you completely away when you were 11? For me it was Star Wars. What else could it have been?

It was either Ben Hur or El Cid ; we went to see both as a family but it was probably before I was 11.

I shared a house in the early 1970s when Star Trek was first being shown on UK television. One of our number became a fanatic and everybody else just watched it because it was on; it seemed a bit clunky even then. I have seen bits of sequels, movies and spin-offs while channel-hopping but never got into any of them.

I saw the middle third (approx) of the first Star Wars movie on a small television in a hotel bedroom (before we we all went to the pub). It made no sense and I have never bothered with it since.

[Jo498]

The first movie I saw in the theater with ca. 11 was "Neverending Story" and I was disappointed because it was no way as good as the book I loved unconditionally (It could never be, that book is about books and reading, you cannot properly put this in a movie and they did only about half of it anyway). I think this made me a lifelong skeptic vs. movies/TV series after books. [I saw the first two movies of LotR in the theater and was so disappointed by the 2nd that I have never seen #3 in any medium...] There are some good ones but few and far between.

As I already wrote above, I am not at all beyond revisiting favorites of my childhood and there are actually books (e.g. Treasure Island) and maybe also some movies I still enjoy.
But I think one should also grow up to some extent in taste and fandom and I am throughly puzzled how many adults (and not 20somethings but well into middle age) keep up with Star Wars and Star Trek and comic books hero movies and get their knickers in a twist if the series is not continued as they'd prefer it (like 11 yo me was picky about the Neverending story movie).

[71 dB]

It was either Ben Hur or El Cid ; we went to see both as a family but it was probably before I was 11.

I'm not sure I have seen those movies.

I saw the middle third (approx) of the first Star Wars movie on a small television in a hotel bedroom (before we we all went to the pub). It made no sense and I have never bothered with it since.

1) How many movies make "sense" if you only see the middle third of them? Isn't it unfair to say a movie doesn't make sense if you don't even see it from beginning to end?

2) What is this obsession of "making sense"? Why does everything need to make sense? Isn't it a value itself that something is cool, epic, entertaining, exciting etc?

3) Star Wars doesn't look the best on small hotel tv.

[71 dB]

FWIW, I was 18, but yes, being in the cinema for that was great fun.

So, when you were 11 you were blown away by Kubrick's 2001? 

[71 dB]

The first movie I saw in the theater with ca. 11 was "Neverending Story" and I was disappointed because it was no way as good as the book I loved unconditionally (It could never be, that book is about books and reading, you cannot properly put this in a movie and they did only about half of it anyway). I think this made me a lifelong skeptic vs. movies/TV series after books. [I saw the first two movies of LotR in the theater and was so disappointed by the 2nd that I have never seen #3 in any medium...] There are some good ones but few and far between.

As I already wrote above, I am not at all beyond revisiting favorites of my childhood and there are actually books (e.g. Treasure Island) and maybe also some movies I still enjoy.
But I think one should also grow up to some extent in taste and fandom and I am throughly puzzled how many adults (and not 20somethings but well into middle age) keep up with Star Wars and Star Trek and comic books hero movies and get their knickers in a twist if the series is not continued as they'd prefer it (like 11 yo me was picky about the Neverending story movie).

Comparing book and movies is silly. Movies are AUDIOVISUAL art and/entertaining. When I watch movies I pay a lot of attention to visuals and sounds/music, because that is where the real creativity of movies are. Star Wars movies are ABSOLUTELY STUNNING audiovisually. Top notch consept art, designs. Superb sound design (Ben Burt), superb music (John Williams). In addition to that the movies have a strong vision (George Lucas), great characters and epic storyline. That is why I love those movies. It doesn't matter if it all is nerdy or childish or whatever. It is stunning audiovisual storytelling. That's all that matters to me.

Books are different. They are about making the reader imagine everything in their own head. That's why for me comparing books to movies is like comparing cooking books to eating in a restaurant.

[Karl Henning]

So, when you were 11 you were blown away by Kubrick's 2001? 

If my folks had taken me to the movie house to see it, yes, I'm sure it would have.

[DavidW]

If my folks had taken me to the movie house to see it, yes, I'm sure it would have.

I almost never went to the movie theater growing up.

[Karl Henning]

I almost never went to the movie theater growing up.

As a rule, when my folks took us to the movies, it was a drive-in. I'm the eldest of seven, you cannot blamed them.

[Karl Henning]

An astute exploration of TWOK:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/05/27/opinion/star-trek-movie-that-makes-case-against-pursuing-perfection/

Good, thought-provoking piece!

[relm1]

Good, thought-provoking piece!

With all due respect, I'm going to challenge you and the author of that article.  Star Trek II is better than they think it is.  Here is why.  On its surface, it's literally Moby Dick.  Captain Ahab and crew seeking revenge from the object that crippled him.  This would on surface be Khan seeking revenge of Kirk. The Kobayashi Maru, the no win training exercise for Starfleet cadets, was again a symbol from Moby Dick.  Captain Ahab's crew didn't encounter the whale until their first officer (Spock/Starbuck) tested them in trial to their captain's satisfaction.  Interestingly, Moby Dick is told through the perspective of a young ensign who survived Captain's obsessive need for revenge. 

But, here is what made Star Trek elevated to literary genius.  In Moby Dick, Captain Ahab was obsessed with revenge.  This is classic mythology.  Ahab's revenge obsession resulted in his death making this a Greek tragedy.  BUT the absolute brilliance of Star Trek II is that the act of death was performed by Spock, the character of pure logic.  This is almost the same story as Moby Dick but with a major curve ball.  The death of Ahab wasn't

Captain Kirk, It was the second in command, the logical Starbuck!  That made the story far better!!!!  Now the emotional burden of the loss is carried on Ahab!

[Karl Henning]

With all due respect, I'm going to challenge you and the author of that article.  Star Trek II is better than they think it is.

I don't think anyone (certainly neither LKB nor I) has suggested otherwise than that The Wrath of Khan is a mighty fine movie.

[relm1]

I don't think anyone (certainly neither LKB nor I) has suggested otherwise than that The Wrath of Khan is a mighty fine movie.

I didn't mean to come across as defiantly as I might have in my post, but a very good screenplay indeed.

[LKB]

So, when you were 11 you were blown away by Kubrick's 2001? 

Yes, from the first viewing in 1968 ( l was younger than 11 ) up to the present day. No film has ever awed and excited me the way 2001 does.

And yet, it might have been even more influential. According to Michael Benson's book, Mahler's Symphony no. 3 was a serious contender for the soundtrack for some time.

I try to imagine 2001 with M3, and it gives me shivers.

[71 dB]

Yes, from the first viewing in 1968 ( l was younger than 11 ) up to the present day. No film has ever awed and excited me the way 2001 does.

2001 is a very challenging movie for 10 year olds. It is challenging even for adults. I was 10-11 when I first saw it with my father in the theatre (re-runs in the early 80's) and I understood perhaps 20 % of the movie. I liked it, but when I saw Star Wars shortly after it I was REALLY blown away.

[Jo498]

Comparing book and movies is silly. Movies are AUDIOVISUAL art and/entertaining.

Be that as it may, you asked which movie we saw as 11 year olds and I answered this (and it was a movie that was highly regarded at that time for its visual effects with the fantastic creatures, the flying dragon and the "nothing") and this was intimately connected with book vs. movie. I was not interested in Star Wars and my parents probably would not have let me watch it anyway.
In any case, it's a moot point what impresses 11 yo; if it was only about young kids, Starwars and Startrek would be but a fraction of their size.
I don't doubt that movies like StarWars depend to a large extent on the overwhelming effect of the big screen in the theater. However, most "classic movies" do work reasonably well on TV size screens and for adults. StarWars didn't work at all for me and thus I never got interested in it.

[Ganondorf]

FWIW, I don't believe I'll bother with any Star Trek post-TNG

awwwwww but Deep Space Nine is the best one...

[LKB]

awwwwww but Deep Space Nine is the best one...

Only for some...

[Florestan]

What movie blew you completely away when you were 11?

Carmen by Francesco Rosi, although I was 13 not 11. I saw it twice by myself and the third time I urged my mom and dad to join me, which they gladly did. A little later, Jesus of Nazareth by Franco Zefirelli. These are the only movies that really blew me away in my teens.

[Florestan]

I think this made me a lifelong skeptic vs. movies/TV series after books. [I saw the first two movies of LotR in the theater and was so disappointed by the 2nd that I have never seen #3 in any medium...] There are some good ones but few and far between.

Any Russian movie / TV series after Russian classics is at least very good. Ditto for any British movie / TV series after English classics, particularly Dickens.