Christian Thielemann scolds his audience!

[Grazioso]

At a recent concert in Munich Christian Thielemann conducted Busoni's Nocturne Symphonique. The piece was greeted by somewhat tepid applause from the audience. Thielemann turned to them and said, with a fair measure of barely suppressed venom: "You have just listened to a great piece of music; so great in fact, that we shall now play it again!"

After the second rendering the applause was a lot more enthusiastic

Sounds like he's an arrogant, ill-mannered prick: "All you people who paid money to be entertained didn't react as I would like. You better get it right this time, or we'll be staying here all night!"

[Dundonnell]

Sounds like he's an arrogant, ill-mannered prick: "All you people who paid money to be entertained didn't react as I would like. You better get it right this time, or we'll be staying here all night!"

[The new erato]

We need more arrogant, illmannered pricks more concerned with the music than with their own image.

But of course it could have ben a bad performance. Personally I would applaud wildly as a matter of principle for any performance of such seldomly performed music.

[starrynight]

Sounds like he's an arrogant, ill-mannered prick: "All you people who paid money to be entertained didn't react as I would like. You better get it right this time, or we'll be staying here all night!"

Applause itself is just a convention and not something intrinsically linked to music.  Just by paying to see him and taking their time up going to the concert they are showing that they in some way appreciate him and / or the music.

[Renfield]

What's wrong with Rattle? Why does everybody seem so down on him? He wouldn't be conductor of the Berlin Philharmonic if he wasn't good at what he does. The man has paid his dues I think. He whipped the City of Birmingham Orchestra into fine shape and they were one of the top orchestras in England after he left.

Edit: I used to despise Rattle, then I heard his Shostakovich and Britten recordings and that soon silenced any negative notions and opinions I had about him. When people actually shut their mouths long enough to listen to the music, then a change can happen.

We are in agreement. In fact, I am glad Thielemann isn't in Berlin, because that would mean Rattle wouldn't be.

Thielemann can practice his art with other great German orchestras. Rattle is exactly where he needs to be, and should be, IMO.


Edit: And yes, the Thielemann reaction is a bit dickish. However, it's his concert programme (to alter, I mean).

[Brahmsian]

We are in agreement. In fact, I am glad Thielemann isn't in Berlin, because that would mean Rattle wouldn't be.

Thielemann can practice his art with other great German orchestras. Rattle is exactly where he needs to be, and should be, IMO.

I concur with everything said here!  Quite frankly, God could be the principal conductor of the Berlin Philharmonic, and he/she would get scrutinized and lambasted on a periodic basis.

Perhaps the toughest job in the world, after President of the United States.  Under constant scrutiny.

[Renfield]

I concur with everything said here!  Quite frankly, God could be the principal conductor of the Berlin Philharmonic, and he/she would get scrutinized and lambasted on a periodic basis.

Perhaps the toughest job in the world, after President of the United States.  Under constant scrutiny.

This is where the Karajan dectractor steps in, to remind us that God was the principal conductor of the BPO for 35 years.

[Opus106]

This is where the Karajan dectractor steps in, to remind us that God was the principal conductor of the BPO for 35 years.

I wanted to say something along those lines, but I'm not a fan of any conductor really; so I left that to a true fan instead.

[Renfield]

I wanted to say something along those lines, but I'm not a fan of any conductor really; so I left that to a true fan instead.

Well, it's the anti-fan that usually spouts this kind of thing, unless we're talking about the quasi-mystical Karajan devotee.

[Opus106]

unless we're talking about the quasi-mystical Karajan devotee.

Quite.

[Wanderer]

Imagine a Tom & Jerry comedy situation, there, where a cell phone rings with that badly played "letter fur Elise" ring some companies offer - just when the pianist on the stage finishes her rendition of... "Letter fur Elise." So, the pianist is confused because she's certain she's finished with the piece but it is still playing...

That would have confused many, I'm sure. 

PS. Note to self: bringing Rattle's name up in a discussion makes almost any able conductor look better in comparison.

[MDL]

There was a lovely story in yesterday's 'Daily Telegraph'(United Kingdom).

At a recent concert in Munich Christian Thielemann conducted Busoni's Nocturne Symphonique. The piece was greeted by somewhat tepid applause from the audience. Thielemann turned to them and said, with a fair measure of barely suppressed venom: "You have just listened to a great piece of music; so great in fact, that we shall now play it again!"

After the second rendering the applause was a lot more enthusiastic

Just what one might expect from Thielemann, I fancy

I'm a bit late, I know, but thanks for posting. I laughed out loud.

[Bulldog]

Sounds like he's an arrogant, ill-mannered prick: "All you people who paid money to be entertained didn't react as I would like. You better get it right this time, or we'll be staying here all night!"

That's also my view of it.  As an audience member, I wouldn't take kindly to any crap handed out by a performer.  Assuming I've paid my money and am not disrupting the proceedings, I demand the respect rightfully due a customer.  Now if someone in the audience was being a pain the ass, I'd want to join Thielemann in beating up the disrupter.

[Renfield]

That's also my view of it.  As an audience member, I wouldn't take kindly to any crap handed out by a performer.  Assuming I've paid my money and am not disrupting the proceedings, I demand the respect rightfully due a customer.  Now if someone in the audience was being a pain the ass, I'd want to join Thielemann in beating up the disrupter.

I'm more inclined to see it as service provision, rather than an exchange of goods, where the performance is what you 'bought'.

You pay Thielemann for his services as a conductor of his chosen programme of music. If he wants to conduct something twice, it's his prerogative, and you can surely ignore his scolding, as it's irrelevant to the service provided, namely a concert of music.

[Lethevich]

It's nice that he believed in the piece so much. It's safe to assume that he's not a nutter, so must have felt strongly enough to do something that was rude but that he still felt was necessary. The audience reaction wouldn't have been uniform - it must have annoyed some, but benefited others.

[eyeresist]

How many of us have actually heard Busoni's alleged masterwork?

[Mirror Image]

How many of us have actually heard Busoni's alleged masterwork?

How many of us actually listen to Busoni? This maybe a fairer question. I know I seldom, if ever, even listen to Busoni. I've heard his Piano Concerto, but never bothered, or cared, to hear anything else. His musical language wasn't too appealing to me.

[Bulldog]

You pay Thielemann for his services as a conductor of his chosen programme of music. If he wants to conduct something twice, it's his prerogative, and you can surely ignore his scolding, as it's irrelevant to the service provided, namely a concert of music.

I don't consider it irrelevant.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

I don't consider it irrelevant.

Me, neither. Unless it's a charity concert and I've been let in for free.

Otherwise if I'm paying good money for ANY event there's nothing wrong with voicing my opinion if something isn't living up to expectations.

And if I'm TOLD that the product (whatever product) is supposed to be admired, yet my eyes/ears tell me otherwise, am I just supposed to stay mum?

[Opus106]

[Y]ou can surely ignore his scolding, as it's irrelevant to the service provided, namely a concert of music.

Then he too could have surely ignored the cool reception, as it's not part of the fee the audience paid to watch the "service provided". (Of course, I concede that there is a small chance that he might have sincerely wanted the audience to appreciate the work more ( ) and that the alleged amount of venom in his voice was exaggerated.)

How many of us have actually heard Busoni's alleged masterwork?

I have, but only as a result of this thread.