Your Top 5 Mahler Movements - Poll!

[Reckoner]

So, are there any recordings of the original orchestration, or is it in fact verbatim in Cooke's version? I ask because I've got about five different completions (Cooke, Wheeler, Carpenter, Mazzetti, Samale-Mazzucca) in my collection, and none of them sound particularly "Mahler-y" to me.

I'm not very familiar with the versions other than Cooke. Mahlerian is around so, it goes without saying, he's your man.

This might help re: any Cooke editions:

With regard to the notes: the Adagio and the Purgatorio are pure Mahler. In the other three movements listeners will hear 95 per cent. Mahler (that is, the music as it stands, with – most important – the spacing of the texture unchanged); the remaining five per cent consists merely of conjectural readings of illegible notes and conjectural fillings-in of missing notes and chords – nearly all obvious, and subsidiary. I have 'composed' nothing.

Secondly, the orchestration: the Adagio is practically pure Mahler (I have rejected the unstylistic additions of the published score); the Purgatorio is, I think, very near to Mahler. The four extracts from Scherzo I are about 80 per cent Mahler; I have merely added the necessary doublings to the 'essential' orchestration of the main scherzo material and closing pages; the two trios and the slow interlude will be played almost exactly as they stand.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5X0YN3BChZCMJBZgJ74z2qK/deryck-cooke-on-mahler-10

[Crudblud]

I'm not very familiar with the versions other than Cooke. Mahlerian is around so, it goes without saying, he's your man.

This might help re: any Cooke editions:

With regard to the notes: the Adagio and the Purgatorio are pure Mahler. In the other three movements listeners will hear 95 per cent. Mahler (that is, the music as it stands, with – most important – the spacing of the texture unchanged); the remaining five per cent consists merely of conjectural readings of illegible notes and conjectural fillings-in of missing notes and chords – nearly all obvious, and subsidiary. I have 'composed' nothing.

Secondly, the orchestration: the Adagio is practically pure Mahler (I have rejected the unstylistic additions of the published score); the Purgatorio is, I think, very near to Mahler. The four extracts from Scherzo I are about 80 per cent Mahler; I have merely added the necessary doublings to the 'essential' orchestration of the main scherzo material and closing pages; the two trios and the slow interlude will be played almost exactly as they stand.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5X0YN3BChZCMJBZgJ74z2qK/deryck-cooke-on-mahler-10

That settles that then. I've also considered that the "completed by <insert person who is not Gustav Mahler here>" tag nags at me while I'm listening, and I'm obstructed from gaining a clear view of the music because of that. There's also the question of performance/recording quality, it seems like the big names steer clear of versions that aren't Cooke III, some performances of others sound particularly muddy.

[Reckoner]

That settles that then. I've also considered that the "completed by <insert person who is not Gustav Mahler here>" tag nags at me while I'm listening, and I'm obstructed from gaining a clear view of the music because of that.

That's fair, for sure. Personally I find a great deal of the 'unfinished' material so impressive that I can look past any authenticity issues.

One of my favourite moments is the flute solo that emerges out the opening of the finale, once those shattering bass drum outbursts subside. As far as I'm aware, Mahler himself specified in the short score that it should be a flute there. It is one of the most glorious passages in his ouevre imo.

[Mahlerian]

Well, for those who are or have been of the adagio only sort -- the second movement scherzo was completed and fully orchestrated by Mahler yet this is often conveniently ignored! 

It is and it isn't.  There is a full score draft of the movement, but it's so bare that you need to go back to the short score in order to fill it in.  Its scoring is, as stands, also very monochromatic, something that Mahler never did in any other published work.  It's not really a finished draft the way the opening movement is, and it should be noted that the composer would have altered the scoring of that movement, too, had he lived long enough to finish the scoring and perform the work, because he always altered orchestration after hearing it played.

[Reckoner]

It is and it isn't.  There is a full score draft of the movement, but it's so bare that you need to go back to the short score in order to fill it in.  Its scoring is, as stands, also very monochromatic, something that Mahler never did in any other published work.  It's not really a finished draft the way the opening movement is, and it should be noted that the composer would have altered the scoring of that movement, too, had he lived long enough to finish the scoring and perform the work, because he always altered orchestration after hearing it played.

Thanks Mahlerian - I had feared that I'd jumped to conclusions. 

From what I remember, Boulez and other notable conductors talked about the lack of counterpoint in the movements that follow the adagio, which is something I can appreciate but perhaps wouldn't understand very well!

[TheGSMoeller]

Symphony No. 2 - movement VI, "Urlicht" - with or without the rest of symphony, "Urlicht" is one of the loveliest five minutes you could experience.

Symphony No. 3 - movement I - on its own is longer than Beethoven's 5th, and displays Mahler's ability to punch the listener in the face with a wall of sound. Might also contain classical music's best trombone solo, or at least the most "want to be played" solo, or so I've been told.

Symphony No. 4 - movement III - if you ever needed a soundtrack for "reflecting on life", this may be the piece. Sublime.

Symphony No. 7 - movement III, Scherzo - Fun, that just about sums it up, pure fun.

Symphony No. 9 - movement I - for all the love that the finale of No.9 gets, some of that love must be given to the road that brought our emotions to this point. It's sad, it's optimistic, it's ethereal, it's Mahler. Dare I say the best of the best?

5 years ago I posted this, still fairly accurate. Although I'll take away Urlicht and add Part II of the 8th Symphony. I've really been falling in love with that symphony, primarily Part II. And add the fourth movement of the 3rd Symphony, I love the mezzo-soprano part of that movement.

[Vaulted]

1:III
3:III
3:VI
8:II
DLvdE:VI

Though if I'd been allowed one more vote I might have just selected the whole of symphony 3.

Yes, although I probably wouldn't have voted for it, I think the rest of 10 should have been included. AFAIC Rattle/Berlin is still the most convincing case for this work.

[Androcles]

Surely at least the Purgatorio movement of 10 should have been included? Didn't Mahler pretty much finish that one?

[mszczuj]

No. 9 - 1st and 4th
Das Lied - 6th
No. 3 - 6th
No. 7 - 2nd

[Sergeant Rock]

Surely at least the Purgatorio movement of 10 should have been included? Didn't Mahler pretty much finish that one?

Both the Adante/Adagio first movement and the Purgatorio third were essentially finished by Mahler before his death. Szell recorded both in 1958, before Cooke released his performing version of the whole.

Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

No. 7 - 2nd

That's one I regret not having room for. Mahler stepping into the future.

Sarge

[mszczuj]

(About No. 7 - 2nd)

That's one I regret not having room for. Mahler stepping into the future.

It was real suprise for me when I discovered who gave the second vote for it.

[North Star]

It was real suprise for me when I discovered who gave the second vote for it.

Electoral fraud is real!

My favourite Movements is by Stravinsky

[Sergeant Rock]

Electoral fraud is real!

My favourite Movements is by Stravinsky

You're young. Still plenty of time to get into Mahler too 

Sarge

[North Star]

You're young. Still plenty of time to get into Mahler too 

Sarge

Oh, I do like Mahler, too.  0:)
I need a better recording of the 3rd, I think (I only have the Rattle), and I don't recall what I think of the 8th. Other than that, we're on good terms even if I don't visit Gustav too often.

[Sergeant Rock]

Oh, I do like Mahler, too.  0:)

Glad to hear it 

I need a better recording of the 3rd, I think (I only have the Rattle)

Horenstein is my first love (but it's controversial). I'd probably take Levine/Chicago to the desert island. He makes the Bim Bam movement rather dark...I like.

Sarge

[North Star]

Glad to hear it 

Horenstein is my first love (but it's controversial). I'd probably take Levine/Chicago to the desert island. He makes the Bim Bam movement rather dark...I like.

Sarge

Thanks. Hm, the one in this box is with Philly.
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[ritter]

I need a better recording of the 3rd, I think (I only have the Rattle)

The name is Abbado, Claudio Abbado:

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An all-round success, and Jessye Norman in O mensch is something you really must hear at least once in your life 

[Sergeant Rock]

Thanks. Hm, the one in this box is with Philly.
[asin]B0041LXX2G[/asin]

Of course, Philadelphia. Things get confused at my age, and in my late night drunken stupor 

Sarge

[North Star]

The name is Abbado, Claudio Abbado:

[asin]B00LWIKB3K[/asin]
An all-round success, and Jessye Norman in O mensch is something you really must hear at least once in your life 

Cheers, Rafael. That does look quite good. *adds to the ever so long list*

Of course, Philadelphia. Things get confused at my age, and in my late night drunken stupor 

Sarge

I was wondering about that. Some conductors have been known to record some of these works with several orchestras