Composers you don't get

[Grazioso]

One might be tempted to whistle it, of course.   

If you can whistle the tune from Close Encounters, all knowledge will be revealed!

[chasmaniac]

If you can whistle the tune from Close Encounters, all knowledge will be revealed!

Further to this Tractarian conceit: "There are indeed things that cannot be put into words. These speak for themselves. They are the mystical."

Ooooh!

[jowcol]

Further to this Tractarian conceit: "There are indeed things that cannot be put into words. These speak for themselves. They are the mystical."

Ooooh!

Tao Te Ching  Verse 29  (which should be accompanied by one hand clapping....)

Do you think you can take over the universe and improve it?
I do not believe it can be done.
The universe is sacred.
You cannot improve it.
If you try to change it, you will ruin it.
If you try to hold it, you will lose it.

[Grazioso]

Further to this Tractarian conceit: "There are indeed things that cannot be put into words. These speak for themselves. They are the mystical."

Ooooh!

As soon as you confuse the finger pointing at the moon with the moon itself you run into practical and intellectual problems.

The nameless is the root of Heaven and Earth,
The named is the mother of the ten thousand things...

[DavidRoss]

One might be tempted to whistle it, of course.   

LOL!  Bravo!

[DavidRoss]

As soon as you confuse the finger pointing at the moon with the moon itself you run into practical and intellectual problems.

The nameless is the root of Heaven and Earth,
The named is the mother of the ten thousand things...

Tao Te Ching  Verse 29  (which should be accompanied by one hand clapping....)

Do you think you can take over the universe and improve it?
I do not believe it can be done.
The universe is sacred.
You cannot improve it.
If you try to change it, you will ruin it.
If you try to hold it, you will lose it.

Bravo again and again!  How wonderful (and unexpected) to see both wit and wisdom here this fine morning!  Thank you, gentlemen.

[jowcol]

Bravo again and again!  How wonderful (and unexpected) to see both wit and wisdom here this fine morning!  Thank you, gentlemen.

Scary-- I was about to quote the same line as Grazioso, but changed my mind.   Grazioso, if you really are thinking like me, you need therapy!

As long as we are here, one more, that may also talk about why it is okay not to "get" something others approve of, or pursue you path when it seems no one understands.



Tao Te Ching Twenty

Give up learning, and put an end to your troubles.

Is there a difference between yes and no?
Is there a difference between good and evil?
Must I fear what others fear? What nonsense!
Other people are contented, enjoying the sacrificial feast of the ox.
In spring some go to the park, and climb the terrace,
But I alone am drifting, not knowing where I am.
Like a newborn babe before it learns to smile,
I am alone, without a place to go.

Others have more than they need, but I alone have nothing.
I am a fool. O, yes! I am confused.
Other men are clear and bright,
But I alone am dim and weak.
Other men are sharp and clever,
But I alone am dull and stupid.
Oh, I drift like the waves of the sea,
Without direction, like the restless wind.

Everyone else is busy,
But I alone am aimless and depressed.
I am different.
I am nourished by the great mother.

[Josquin des Prez]

Others have more than they need, but I alone have nothing.
I am a fool. O, yes! I am confused.
Other men are clear and bright,
But I alone am dim and weak.
Other men are sharp and clever,
But I alone am dull and stupid.
Oh, I drift like the waves of the sea,
Without direction, like the restless wind.

Story of my life in a nutshell.

Really, the first two lines in the Tao express my entire problem here. Once you name the Tao, you lost it. Likewise, if i try to define what genius is, it cease to be the real thing. And i guess i had a master/pupil relationship with Steve in a taoistic sense. Most of what i learned derives not from what he said, but in what he didn't say.

[some guy]

How would this be? Don't try to define "genius."

Ask yourself this, "Why do I want to define 'genius'? Why do I need the concept at all?"

[Josquin des Prez]

Why bother knowing anything? I don't think i understand the question.

[DavidRoss]

Scary-- I was about to quote the same line as Grazioso, but changed my mind.   Grazioso, if you really are thinking like me, you need therapy!

As long as we are here, one more, that may also talk about why it is okay not to "get" something others approve of, or pursue you path when it seems no one understands.



Tao Te Ching Twenty

Give up learning, and put an end to your troubles.

Is there a difference between yes and no?
Is there a difference between good and evil?
Must I fear what others fear? What nonsense!
Other people are contented, enjoying the sacrificial feast of the ox.
In spring some go to the park, and climb the terrace,
But I alone am drifting, not knowing where I am.
Like a newborn babe before it learns to smile,
I am alone, without a place to go.

Others have more than they need, but I alone have nothing.
I am a fool. O, yes! I am confused.
Other men are clear and bright,
But I alone am dim and weak.
Other men are sharp and clever,
But I alone am dull and stupid.
Oh, I drift like the waves of the sea,
Without direction, like the restless wind.

Everyone else is busy,
But I alone am aimless and depressed.
I am different.
I am nourished by the great mother.

I've seen worse translations.  This catches some of the spirit, but is still misleading.  Try:

-20-

Give up eruditon and be without anxiety.
Acceptance and denial--how far apart are they?
Beauty and ugliness--what distinguishes them?
What one man fears must others fear also?
It goes on and on and never nears an end!
The multitudes are prosperous and joyful,
Like villagers celebrating a great festival.
When climbing the terraces in springtime
I am at peace among them, never wavering,
Like a newborn child who has yet to laugh.
How acquisitive they are,
As if they lack the means of replenishment!
The multitudes all have more than enough--
Only I leave alone.
I have the mind of a simpleton--
So foolish and clumsy!
Worldly people are brilliant and clear--
I alone am muddled and tongue-tied.
Worldly people are perceptive and sure--
I alone am bewildered and confused.
Unfathomable!  Vast as the ocean.
Infinite!  As if there's no place it stops.

The multitudes all have their ambitions--
I alone seek the door to the beginning
In order to laugh at my desires.
I alone am different from the others
And prize drinking from the mother.

[jowcol]

I've seen worse translations.  This catches some of the spirit, but is still misleading.  Try:

-20-

Give up eruditon and be without anxiety.
Acceptance and denial--how far apart are they?
Beauty and ugliness--what distinguishes them?
What one man fears must others fear also?
It goes on and on and never nears an end!
The multitudes are prosperous and joyful,
Like villagers celebrating a great festival.
When climbing the terraces in springtime
I am at peace among them, never wavering,
Like a newborn child who has yet to laugh.
How acquisitive they are,
As if they lack the means of replenishment!
The multitudes all have more than enough--
Only I leave alone.
I have the mind of a simpleton--
So foolish and clumsy!
Worldly people are brilliant and clear--
I alone am muddled and tongue-tied.
Worldly people are perceptive and sure--
I alone am bewildered and confused.
Unfathomable!  Vast as the ocean.
Infinite!  As if there's no place it stops.

The multitudes all have their ambitions--
I alone seek the door to the beginning
In order to laugh at my desires.
I alone am different from the others
And prize drinking from the mother.

Interesting-- whose translation?

[DavidRoss]

Interesting-- whose translation?

Mine, from the Ma Wang Tui manuscripts.

[some guy]

Why bother knowing anything? I don't think i understand the question.

If you answered the question, you would indeed have knowledge, and not only knowledge, perhaps you would also have wisdom.

[Elgarian]

Ask yourself this, "Why do I want to define 'genius'? Why do I need the concept at all?"

Ruskin distinguishes between the aesthetic response to art ('the mere animal consciousness of the pleasantness') and (coining a term from Aristotle), the theoretic response ('the exulting, reverent, and grateful perception of it'). So Aesthesis, then, broadly concerns the sensual; Theoria, the moral or spiritual.

So the theoretic response to art involves feelings of joy, gratitude, awe, reverence, and the like - and associated with this comes an idea of the artist's capabilities and insights which, in so far as they exceed our comprehension (we being incapable of such things ourselves), we might be inclined to refer to as signs of 'genius'. It's an imprecise term, but basically it's a compliment, signifying admiration for the maker, as having done something extraordinarily out of the common way. To call Mozart (say) a genius seems like a very normal and healthy thing to do - a shorthand way of expressing gratitude, awe, and admiration for his artistic insight, and for the joy it brings.

[jowcol]

Mine, from the Ma Wang Tui manuscripts.

Way cool!  I'm most impressed. 

[Philoctetes]

The only composer I don't get, and it's not all of his works only a subset of them, mainly his symphonies, and that composer is Mozart.

[eyeresist]

Mmm, I have that too, to some extent. The late symphonies don't impress me as much as I'm told they're supposed to. I find the earlier ones, with their lyricism influenced by Italian opera, more enjoyable.

I also find Mozart's violin concertos pretty blah.

[snyprrr]

How would this be? Don't try to define "genius."

Ask yourself this, "Why do I want to define 'genius'? Why do I need the concept at all?"

Because otherwise I'd have to buy EVERY cd to hear how it stacks up to my ever accumulating list of contenders for my most precious time.

Is it 'genius' to take a ballad and turn it into a punk rock song? c'mon, be honest,... it seems it was at oooooone time

Is it 'genius' to have a crack wit?

Are Norgard's Symphonies Genius?? , or have we reached a point where someone had BETTER come up with something cool!!!! We Contemporary Music Lovers don't take no jive, no what I mean? I will tell you WHY something sucks raw eggs, but I have a hard time explaining Norgard No.5 mind boggling mysteries.

Many times, when people come up with something out of thin air, it is called genius. Think of when Rochberg, in what?, 1976, stunned the academic world (as a traitor, I suppose) when he incorporated a Mahlerian slow movement in an otherwise dodecaphonic work. I know, bad example ...

I think, TODAY, you CAN be a 'genius', if you WANT TO BE, because ALL the former geniuses have left their posterity for us, so, duh, we can learn from the best and go, like genii, far beyond what they had ever dreamed. What Modern Composer do you think Bach would call a genius?

I mean, was Billy Squier a genius because he sucked so bad? I don't think so. SOME have sucked to the point of genius... help me out here... ED WOOD! Genius, or fool, what's the difference?

The only sin is to be BORING!!! And many have sinned... a LOT!!!

[Karl Henning]

I also find Mozart's violin concertos pretty blah.

So did I, first time I heard them. Gidon Kremer helped me to see light. The David Oistrakh set is smashing, too.