Composers you don't get

[Karl Henning]

The only sin is to be BORING!!!

I get that, truly I do.

Yet, if you think on it . . . there is a lot of musical boredom being experienced which is not any matter of the composer's alleged failure, but of the listener's condition.

Chew on that 'un.

[raduneo]

I get that, truly I do.

Yet, if you think on it . . . there is a lot of musical boredom being experienced which is not any matter of the composer's alleged failure, but of the listener's condition.

Chew on that 'un.

Very good point! In your opinion, would everyone be able to enjoy classical music? (at least small parts of it, namely very accessible pieces, like say The Nutcracker, Rach 2, Moonlight Sonata, Clair de Lune). Or is it "not for everyone"?

I am thinking that if you were to convince some people that classical music is not for "sissies" or "old people", and that putting in a little listening effort isn't that bad and it most definitely pays off, than once they would get over their prejudice over it they should be able to enjoy (at least some of) it. I feel that there's a great variety in classical music to be found, something for everyone:from the very emotional, deep, very sad, to the sarcastic, funny, disturbingly dark, absurd, spiritual, happy, extremely energetic, violent and wild, psychotic, supernatural, military, etc. So IN THEORY there should be something for everyone. hmmm

Just something I've been pondering on.

[snyprrr]

I get that, truly I do.

Yet, if you think on it . . . there is a lot of musical boredom being experienced which is not any matter of the composer's alleged failure, but of the listener's condition.

Chew on that 'un.

Of course.

Can we possibly get a consensus on some shitty piece of music, so we have some kind of...aye, this isn't going to work, is it?

I love much grey, boring music, only because it allows me to imagine things that more involving music won't. When I listen to music that's overwhelming, there's no room for MEEEEE!!!!


I'm thinking of Feldman's 'For Samuel Beckett', 40mins of grey wash, and not the kind of Feldman I like. However, it IS 40mins long, so, if it's raining and I'm moody, this piece works ok for me,... as a background.


I wish we could have these types of probes with some kind of ASSUMING CONSENSUS,... I mean, I feel like (you're) going to say that "If you find it boring, it's because YOU'RE boring". C'mon, we all know that's not true, right? ISN'T there such a thing a just plain old boring music? There must be a Symphony or String Quartet from...mm...about 1869-73... that would test EVERYONE'S mettle,... there MUST be.

I don't know why I tend to dwell on criticism and 'bad' things, but I suppose I'm one of those that expects perfection, and only notice the lack of perfection. I can easily discard perfection as being perfect and not needing to be noted; however, imperfection seems to demand one's attention.

Surely I have all this backwards. I mean, I looooove '70s exploitation films,... I love many guilty pleasure (maybe I ONLY love g.p.?),... so how can I know what Greatness is?

oy, my head is spinning


Karl, as to your reply,... can we ASSUME that the listener is not the problem just for the argument at hand?


aye,... already a headache and I've only been up an hour, haha...


Perhaps, like a car wreck, I cannot turn my ears nor eyes from the grievously horrible. Do I love the bad more than the good?


Again, surely there is an American work from 1980-2010 that fits the bill!! I must be obsessed with the work "sucks".

DISCO SUCKS!

Well, honestly, many at least played their instruments back then, but, I'm a sucker for disco and all things '70s pretty much.

Am...I... a genius?

[chasmaniac]

I don't think I "get" any of them, but I'm really impressed by the ones who "get" me.

[Karl Henning]

Karl, as to your reply,... can we ASSUME that the listener is not the problem just for the argument at hand?

In fact, that is my baseline assumption as I do my own composing . . . .

[snyprrr]

In fact, that is my baseline assumption as I do my own composing . . . .

Have you had the same horrified reaction that Cato had? Or, do you realize that going down a semitone has a universally ominous tone and use it only when you intend it as such? Elaborate...

[Karl Henning]

Sometimes, the descent of a semitone is a gesture of gracious dolcezza.

The notes do what I require of them, nor dare they stray far from my intent.

[Elgarian]

The notes do what I require of them, nor dare they stray far from my intent.

If I were a note, I don't think I'd dare to stray far. In fact I'd probably get hung up on E-F and B-C changes, on the lazy principle that the distance is shorter. (Assuming, as seems likely, that I'd be forever stuck in the key of C, and playing only the most elementary tunes.)

[Elgarian]

Yet, if you think on it . . . there is a lot of musical boredom being experienced which is not any matter of the composer's alleged failure, but of the listener's condition.

Happens to me all the time. Not just with music, but with visual art and books. It seems to be a matter of matching the listener to the work under the right conditions at the right time. Believe it or not, I have sometimes been a bit bored listening to parts of Der Ring. (Confessions now coming thick and fast, y'see.)

[Karl Henning]

You're the bravest man I know, Alan!

[Lisztianwagner]

Believe it or not, I have sometimes been a bit bored listening to parts of Der Ring. (Confessions now coming thick and fast, y'see.)

[Elgarian]

Alright then, the whole truth: I wasn't feeling very well at the time.

[snyprrr]

Sometimes, the descent of a semitone is a gesture of gracious dolcezza.

Right: a B-to-C Octave Unison has that 'weighty' sound, but a B-to-C with a G in the bass makes it a lilting suspended fourth.

The notes do what I require of them, nor dare they stray far from my intent.[/font]

Is that Igor? I needed to hear that right now, that helps how I'm thinking about the notes... as if they were 'people', 'characters', so to speak.

If I were a note, I don't think I'd dare to stray far. In fact I'd probably get hung up on E-F and B-C changes, on the lazy principle that the distance is shorter. (Assuming, as seems likely, that I'd be forever stuck in the key of C, and playing only the most elementary tunes.)

Doesn't Genius dwell in the semitone? ::)hmm??

[Mirror Image]

Believe it or not, I have sometimes been a bit bored listening to parts of Der Ring.

You must have been listening to Siegfried when this boredom set in. For me, this is the weakest link of the entire cycle.

[Elgarian]

You must have been listening to Siegfried when this boredom set in. For me, this is the weakest link of the entire cycle.

It's certainly the one that's most likely to make me restless in my seat at times, but I wouldn't therefore conclude that it's the weakest link. I think these boredom issues are overwhelmingly a matter of personal temperament, and my restlessness certainly isn't a reliable indicator of the intrinsic value of the music-drama. I remember having a discussion with someone in this forum a year or two ago about Die Walkure: for me, there isn't a dull moment throughout its entire length, but the chap I was talking to (might have been Scarpia?) couldn't bear what he experienced as the tedium that inhabits much of Act 2. There was no way of accounting for this difference as far as I could see, except by acknowledging the difference in our temperaments.

Coincidentally, I've been watching daily chunks of Walkure the last few evenings - from the Chereau Ring. Bloomin' marvellous, and confirming that for me, there's not a dull moment anywhere. In fact I've fallen in love with Jeannine Altmeyer and Gwyneth Jones all over again. I can't argue my way out of that sort of infatuation!

[starrynight]

Sometimes the performer is the problem and not the listener in making a piece boring.  But ultimately a performer, unless they effectively rewrite the piece, can only do so much with a piece of music.

[Karl Henning]

Yes, as we found last night.  Notwithstanding the excellence of both the soloist and the BSO, the Violin Concerto is clearly B-grade Dvořák.  Not utterly without interest, and I say this knowing that Dvořák produced a great wealth of A-material.

[not edward]

Yes, as we found last night.  Notwithstanding the excellence of both the soloist and the BSO, the Violin Concerto is clearly B-grade Dvořák.  Not utterly without interest, and I say this knowing that Dvořák produced a great wealth of A-material.

As someone who learnt the solo part in my teens (wasn't really good enough to play it in public, though) I have to totally agree there. There's some nice things in it but it's ultimately it doesn't stand out in the way that his best work does. I remember it being quite a bit of fun to play, though.

[eyeresist]

Yes, as we found last night.  Notwithstanding the excellence of both the soloist and the BSO, the Violin Concerto is clearly B-grade Dvořák.  Not utterly without interest, and I say this knowing that Dvořák produced a great wealth of A-material.

Yes. Something the reviewers rarely have the guts to say!

[snyprrr]

I sense a lack of Genius surrounding this Dvorak and his VC.