Composers you don't get

[bwv 1080]

All right then, Schnittke. At best he seems like a lesser Shostakovich in a bad mood. I have the quintet, symphonies, a CG and VC.

I love Schnittke but, aside from the later chamber music, sometimes think Shostakovich is a lesser Mahler in a bad mood

[Karl Henning]

Sibelius was pretty much forced to quit treating his tremor with alcohol to keep his health, and thus he couldn't write scores anymore.

Thanks for the emendation;  though that points out other factors which make our wishful thinking speculative at best

[North Star]

Thanks for the emendation;  though that points out other factors which make our wishful thinking speculative at best

What, you mean it would be silly to wish Ravel had written more music, with no less polish? 

[kishnevi]

For me the very lightness of Satie's music is consequential.

[Mirror Image]

All right then, Schnittke. At best he seems like a lesser Shostakovich in a bad mood. I have the quintet, symphonies, a CG and VC.

I disagree. I think, like Mahler and Shostakovich, Schnittke was interested in merging different styles of music together and somehow making them form something musically cohesive and comprehensible, but like Mahler and Shostakovich, beneath that polystylistic surface lay a man who was, in his own way, revealing apart of his soul to the listener. Schnittke was a very spiritual person and his faith was important to him, but what he sat out to do is express himself in a way that only he could. I think this 'bad mood' you hear is actually emotional ventilation. Not really anger for it's own sake, but, in my view, he's trying to tell the listener something that happened to him that upset him. His later music can give many people problems, but he suffered as much as any composer did and his ongoing bouts of poor health affected his music, but there is life in his music, it's just that he gets right to the point and cuts off all the superfluous trimmings so that his soul can be laid bare.

[milk]

I disagree. I think, like Mahler and Shostakovich, Schnittke was interested in merging different styles of music together and somehow making them form something musically cohesive and comprehensible, but like Mahler and Shostakovich, beneath that polystylistic surface lay a man who was, in his own way, revealing apart of his soul to the listener. Schnittke was a very spiritual person and his faith was important to him, but what he sat out to do is express himself in a way that only he could. I think this 'bad mood' you hear is actually emotional ventilation. Not really anger for it's own sake, but, in my view, he's trying to tell the listener something that happened to him that upset him. His later music can give many people problems, but he suffered as much as any composer did and his ongoing bouts of poor health affected his music, but there is life in his music, it's just that he gets right to the point and cuts off all the superfluous trimmings so that his soul can be laid bare.

This inspired me to listen to Schnittke's Cello sonata No. 1. now. Great stuff! Definitely some raw emotion.   

[eoghan]

I've liked what little Schnittke I've heard (mostly chamber music). It's definitely more challenging than Shostakovich, but still quite listenable if you're into that sort of thing. Need to give him a bit more exploration.

[milk]

I never got Haydn. I do like some of his piano trios but he generally never stuck with me. I'm not listening to this period much now so I doubt I'll have a chance to try again soon. Maybe some day. I still haven't gotten very far with Ligeti. I've been loving Xenakis lately and, in a way, Ligeti seems like just small a step sideways. But I think It will come. Is there a thread for "famous compositions you don't get"? I like Cage but can't for the life of me get his etudes. I really tried to get into Scriabin but It just never stuck. I made a big effort!   

[Mirror Image]

This inspired me to listen to Schnittke's Cello sonata No. 1. now. Great stuff! Definitely some raw emotion.

Indeed. That's a great piece. One of my favorite Schnittke chamber works is Four Hymns. Have you heard this work? It's quite difficult to find on disc and it's scored for bassoon, viola, cello, double bass, harpsichord, harp, timpani, and tubular bells. Unusual instrumentation, but he really makes it work to marvelous effect.

[milk]

Indeed. That's a great piece. One of my favorite Schnittke chamber works is Four Hymns. Have you heard this work? It's quite difficult to find on disc and it's scored for bassoon, viola, cello, double bass, harpsichord, harp, timpani, and tubular bells. Unusual instrumentation, but he really makes it work to marvelous effect.

I realize that, for some reason, I have iii. and iv. from 4 hymns. I don't know why I don't have it all. I'll go back and listen. But maybe I need to complete it.

[Mirror Image]

I realize that, for some reason, I have iii. and iv. from 4 hymns. I don't know why I don't have it all. I'll go back and listen. But maybe I need to complete it.

Yes, give the whole work a proper listen. Have you heard the Viola Concerto or Faust Cantata yet? If no, then, run, don't walk to remedy this!

[milk]

Yes, give the whole work a proper listen. Have you heard the Viola Concerto or Faust Cantata yet? If no, then, run, don't walk to remedy this!

Ok. I'm getting to all this today. Looks like Eschenbach on the viola and BIS for the Cantata.

[Mirror Image]

Ok. I'm getting to all this today. Looks like Eschenbach on the viola and BIS for the Cantata.

I haven't heard David Aaron Carpenter in the Viola Concerto, but I would have a hard time believing anyone could better the Bashmet/Rostropovich recording. As for that Faust Cantata with DePreist, that's an excellent recording that also contains some other great works like (K)ein Sommernachtstraum, Passacaglia, and Ritual. A great disc for a listener just starting to get into Schnittke's music.

[71 dB]

I never got Haydn. I do like some of his piano trios but he generally never stuck with me. I'm not listening to this period much now so I doubt I'll have a chance to try again soon. Maybe some day.

I like Haydn, but not as much as some people. I have never get the applause Haydn gets for his String Quartets and Symphonies. I enjoy Dittersdorf's music about as much as Haydn's. Why not? Both where top composers of their time. So, for me Haydn is a bit overrated while Dittersdorf is underrated.

Why are Haydn's Symphonies and String Quartets so popular while his Concertos and Piano Trios etc. aren't? Weird.

[amw]

The Piano Trios have received their share of advocacy (from the likes of Charles Rosen) but are relatively infrequently performed because of the comparative lack of interest in the violin and cello parts. (they are basically enhanced piano sonatas, with the cello providing the bass and the violin taking over the cantabile melodies). I think they are on a level with the late symphonies and quartets in musical interest. The Concertos aren't as good. >.> Haydn's operas, sacred music (except the Creation and the Seasons & maybe one or two of the masses) and wind ensemble works are also quite underrated, as are the baryton trios & some of the keyboard works. Still, it's mostly the invention of the symphony and string quartet in their modern form that has led to Haydn's fame. With his quartets Opus 20 and 33, and the contemporaneous symphonies (40s, 50s, 60s) Haydn succeeded in elevating a domestic music genre and a glorified opera overture, respectively, to the level of the sublime, assimilating the high drama of serious opera and the learned style of sacred music into a new style surpassing that of CPE Bach in depth and power... etc... etc. His other works were less influential, Mozart's concertos were a more significant model on succeeding generations for instance, Beethoven's piano sonatas broke the mold of the educational pieces Mozart and Haydn and CPE had contributed while simultaneously destroying the musical language that had made their creation possible, and so forth.

[milk]

I like Haydn, but not as much as some people. I have never get the applause Haydn gets for his String Quartets and Symphonies. I enjoy Dittersdorf's music about as much as Haydn's. Why not? Both where top composers of their time. So, for me Haydn is a bit overrated while Dittersdorf is underrated.

Why are Haydn's Symphonies and String Quartets so popular while his Concertos and Piano Trios etc. aren't? Weird.

I do find his piano concertos enjoyable enough as an alternative to Mozart's. I admit I never tried very hard with the Symphonies or SQs. I did make an effort with the genre I like: keyboard music in in general and it just never stuck with me. It doesn't offend me.

But for composers I really don't get I guess Scarlatti is the one. Haydn is fine I guess. I just don't love it. But Scarlatti, I really tried hard and failed.

[North Star]

I do find his piano concertos enjoyable enough as an alternative to Mozart's. I admit I never tried very hard with the Symphonies or SQs. I did make an effort with the genre I like: keyboard music in in general and it just never stuck with me. It doesn't offend me.

But for composers I really don't get I guess Scarlatti is the one. Haydn is fine I guess. I just don't love it. But Scarlatti, I really tried hard and failed.

Assuming you mean Domenico, not his father Alessandro, this is a beauty, and probably not something most associate with him.
https://www.youtube.com/v/bZrYxbOTUq4

[71 dB]

But for composers I really don't get I guess Scarlatti is the one. Haydn is fine I guess. I just don't love it. But Scarlatti, I really tried hard and failed.

Alessandro was imo much greater composer than his son Domenico, who's "modern" sonatas don't do much for me, but Alessandro's cantatas are wonderful!  0:)

[71 dB]

The Piano Trios have received their share of advocacy (from the likes of Charles Rosen) but are relatively infrequently performed because of the comparative lack of interest in the violin and cello parts. (they are basically enhanced piano sonatas, with the cello providing the bass and the violin taking over the cantabile melodies). I think they are on a level with the late symphonies and quartets in musical interest.

Oh, it's that.  Thanks for the explanation.

[North Star]

Alessandro was imo much greater composer than his son Domenico, who's "modern" sonatas don't do much for me, but Alessandro's cantatas are wonderful!  0:)

Check out Domenico's Stabat Mater a 10 voci from the video I posted above.