Author Topic: Missing Members  (Read 601021 times)

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Offline Madiel

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #2660 on: December 24, 2019, 04:39:58 AM »
Deleting of posts or threads is not a frequent occurrence  but can be an effective way to end undesirable behaviour or conflicts. Leaving offensive, insulting, or contentious stuff out there to sit and fester, is generally not a good idea.

Those are not your only 2 options, and I really wish you would stop presenting them as if they were.

First and foremost, I am not advocating leaving things to "fester", and it's precisely my issue with the way that things often run is that things are left to fester right up until the moment that you decide it's time to wipe everything.

I'm not suggesting you do less moderating, whatever else anyone else is suggesting. I'm actually suggesting you do more visible moderating, and do it earlier.

You might well do other things, but if all anyone ever actually sees of moderating is the disappearance of material then the impression that you give is that the moderators are simply silent observers up until that moment.

It's pretty remarkable how by far the biggest and longest statements of moderator policy / signs of moderator behaviour we ever get are when you come marching out to tell me how you're not going to justify your policies or explain your behaviour.

Well no, I wouldn't actually a feel a need to ask for explanations of your behaviour if there was actually any opportunity to just observe your behaviour. It will probably surprise you that I am by nature a supporter of authority. But that is predicated on there being some kind of ability to rationalise what the fuck is going on. Which is scarcely possible around here because you have a fundamental belief that being answerable to the site owner means that no-one else needs to see anything. A belief that is startling in its psychological naivety.

I mean, why are we even having this discussion? Because there was an announcement that a member had left. With a further announcement that they were not banned. Why exactly did you lot feel either of those announcements had to be made? If you're not answerable, what exactly drove you, personally, to want to make that clear?
« Last Edit: December 24, 2019, 04:48:33 AM by Madiel »
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Offline Madiel

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #2661 on: December 24, 2019, 04:53:39 AM »
If you're going to tell me that moderators are not answerable and will not explain anything, then this:

I just wanted to make clear that he was not banned or asked to leave.

makes zero sense at all.

You basically created my own awareness that anything had happened, and now you want to tell me not to talk about it. Don't fucking bring it up then.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Offline Que

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #2662 on: December 24, 2019, 05:01:42 AM »
when you come marching out to tell me how you're not going to justify your policies or explain your behaviour.

First of all, this is not what I said. We are quite open to communicate with members of the forum. But I am not looking for continuous and endless debates on every decision we make. Secondly: as pointed out before, moderating decisions are not a suitable topic for public discussions. Thirdly, as you pointed out yourself, you don't know everything that is going on behind the scenes. Nor do you need to know or should you know.  It is the way it is...

Why this preoccupation with moderating?
Aren't you here to have good conversations with fellow forum members on music in a friendly atmosphere?

Q

Offline Que

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #2663 on: December 24, 2019, 05:17:28 AM »
But one new member seems to have disappeared, and I do miss him.  dissily Mordentroge was last here on December 17

He just posted today.  :)

Offline Que

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #2664 on: December 24, 2019, 06:01:24 AM »
If you're going to tell me that moderators are not answerable and will not explain anything, then this:

makes zero sense at all.

You basically created my own awareness that anything had happened, and now you want to tell me not to talk about it. Don't fucking bring it up then.

Now you are being hostile and argumentative, and rude.
I'm already sorry that I engaged in a conversation with you at all.
Though we've seen this before, many times.

I don't know what your issue is, nor do I want to.
But I'm pretty sure that you are not going to resolve it in an argument with me, or with anyone else on this forum.

Q
« Last Edit: December 24, 2019, 06:25:59 AM by Que »

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #2665 on: December 24, 2019, 06:43:56 AM »
So what's the right proportion? That you were consistently and actively discourteous to him? Which is not illegal, so you insist on your right to do this?

It's Christmas, how about a little consideration for those less fortunate than we?

Karl, with all due respect, I’ve seen the way you talk to 71 dB, for example, in the political threads and it’s nothing to write home about. In fact, many members here that post in those threads are discourteous to each other on a regular basis. Are we not practicing what we preach? I stated an issue with Carlo Gesualdo’s thread posting, I don’t have any problems with him personally as I don’t know him outside of this forum. I never ridiculed him nor personally attacked him. I made several complaints and it backfired, so I learned my lesson here. I’ll never complain against another member again and I’m going to take up the philosophy of turning the other cheek. If this is what moderators believe solves problems then I guess it’s the only option I have.
"Close communion with the people is the natural soil nourishing all my work.” - Aram Khachaturian

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #2666 on: December 24, 2019, 06:58:17 AM »
I do want to say that I’m sorry to everyone here for fueling this fire. I’m not trying to be hateful, but I thought if I had an issue I could, at least, post to the member about it and, while I agree I shouldn’t have posted so much, I felt it was the only way to express my annoyance. I am, after all, only human. There’s no one here that doesn’t have a flaw or some misgiving. I also want to say to the member, Carlo Gesualdo, that I’m sorry for not making you feel welcomed. This wasn’t may intention, but, I suppose in hindsight, it did appear that way.

I’ve decided that it’s best for me to just let all of this go. There’s no winners here with this particular issue --- only losers and I’ve been a loser all of my life, so I don’t need to add something else to this long list.
"Close communion with the people is the natural soil nourishing all my work.” - Aram Khachaturian

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #2667 on: December 24, 2019, 07:05:30 AM »
Karl, with all due respect, I’ve seen the way you talk to 71 dB, for example, in the political threads and it’s nothing to write home about. In fact, many members here that post in those threads are discourteous to each other on a regular basis. Are we not practicing what we preach? I stated an issue with Carlo Gesualdo’s thread posting, I don’t have any problems with him personally as I don’t know him outside of this forum. I never ridiculed him nor personally attacked him. I made several complaints and it backfired, so I learned my lesson here. I’ll never complain against another member again and I’m going to take up the philosophy of turning the other cheek. If this is what moderators believe solves problems then I guess it’s the only option I have.

Your point about 71dB is well taken, of course, and although one doesn't expect you to follow all the twists and turns, I have generally made an effort to be less antagonistic to him. I don't believe you'll find me trying to justify bad behavior to him, although, my being impact, you might. I certainly agree that it would be hypocritical of me to suggest that you be courteous, without my looking in the mirror.


And I've got to echo JBS's point: if I cannot simply overlook threads that a given member inaugurates, the problem is mine, not that member's, and it were antagonistic of me to try to make it that member's problem.


I thought it was abysmal of Andrei, to start a thread to discuss another member, but I succeeded in disregarding that thread.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #2668 on: December 24, 2019, 07:06:07 AM »
I do want to say that I’m sorry to everyone here for fueling this fire. I’m not trying to be hateful, but I thought if I had an issue I could, at least, post to the member about it and, while I agree I shouldn’t have posted so much, I felt it was the only way to express my annoyance. I am, after all, only human. There’s no one here that doesn’t have a flaw or some misgiving. I also want to say to the member, Carlo Gesualdo, that I’m sorry for not making you feel welcomed. This wasn’t may intention, but, I suppose in hindsight, it did appear that way.

I’ve decided that it’s best for me to just let all of this go. There’s no winners here with this particular issue --- only losers and I’ve been a loser all of my life, so I don’t need to add something else to this long list.

Spoken like a gentleman.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline Florestan

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #2669 on: December 24, 2019, 07:09:46 AM »
I thought it was abysmal of Andrei, to start a thread to discuss another member, but I succeeded in disregarding that thread.

Well, maybe you should have read it. You'd have learned that my position was consistently pro CG.
"Visând, întrezărim prin doruri –
latente-n pulberi aurii –
păduri ce ar putea să fie
și niciodată nu vor fi."

--- Lucian Blaga

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #2670 on: December 24, 2019, 07:14:33 AM »
Your point about 71dB is well taken, of course, and although one doesn't expect you to follow all the twists and turns, I have generally made an effort to be less antagonistic to him. I don't believe you'll find me trying to justify bad behavior to him, although, my being impact, you might. I certainly agree that it would be hypocritical of me to suggest that you be courteous, without my looking in the mirror.


And I've got to echo JBS's point: if I cannot simply overlook threads that a given member inaugurates, the problem is mine, not that member's, and it were antagonistic of me to try to make it that member's problem.


I thought it was abysmal of Andrei, to start a thread to discuss another member, but I succeeded in disregarding that thread.

Spoken like a gentleman.

Thank you, Karl.
"Close communion with the people is the natural soil nourishing all my work.” - Aram Khachaturian

Offline Madiel

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #2671 on: December 24, 2019, 12:28:55 PM »
First of all, this is not what I said. We are quite open to communicate with members of the forum. But I am not looking for continuous and endless debates on every decision we make. Secondly: as pointed out before, moderating decisions are not a suitable topic for public discussions. Thirdly, as you pointed out yourself, you don't know everything that is going on behind the scenes. Nor do you need to know or should you know.  It is the way it is...

Why this preoccupation with moderating?
Aren't you here to have good conversations with fellow forum members on music in a friendly atmosphere?

Q

Preoccupation?

You mean, I’m not supposed to ever think about how the place is run?

Is that actually how you spend the REST of your life? Never having any thoughts at all about any of the organisations or businesses that you encounter? Just experiencing them and then moving on?

Or is it just that you never express them?

Well, from time to time I express them. Not gratuitously, only when I think there’s a chance it will make a difference.

What you describe as a preoccupation, I consider actually caring enough to tell you what I think. The fact that other people don’t tell you what they think about moderation doesn’t mean they don’t have thoughts about moderation, it just means they don’t tell you what they think.

In the past I raised things that were related more to the technical workings of the forum software. I stopped raising them when it became apparent there was zero prospect of them ever being solved. But the fact that I was the person who raised them didn’t mean I was the only person experiencing them. I’m just the one who bothered to mention what was going on.

You’re basically saying, why can’t you be a good little restaurant customer who reflexively says the meal is great when the waiter asks. Or more, why you can’t eat your meal and say nothing at all about what you thought of the meal.

And if I say anything, then the response will possibly be: if you don’t like it, eat somewhere else. A false dichotomy that proposes that if I say anything, it must be because I don’t like “it”. As if the entire experience is one single indivisible thing that I can only experience as a totality.

Nice restaurant here. I like it and keep coming back. Except for how every now and then you suddenly blare the muzak really loudly. Surely that can be fixed? That’s the one thing I dislike.

Conclusion of some people: he doesn’t like “the restaurant”. Conclusion of others: he’s obsessed with the Muzak. Regular answer: that’s just inevitably the way the Muzak is.

Despite the fact that I’ve eaten at a number of other restaurants without the Muzak suddenly blaring like that.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2019, 02:55:13 PM by Madiel »
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Offline Christo

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #2672 on: December 24, 2019, 03:48:04 PM »
Mirror image and Madiel, maybe you should get a room together!
You just stop harassing the moderators on GMG, if anyone, both of you should be heavily moderated. You are very fortunate that our moderators are very tolerant of your childish pranks. If it was for me, I would have removed you after the things you wrote in this thread!
You disgust me, both of you.
A very happy and peaceful christmas to you both.........not!

Merry Christmas, Harry! And of course to both mentioned, especially Mirror image who's a really fine & unmissable contributor to this forum, also Madiel for his real insight into the music of Holmboe, one of my very special composers and who's with him cannot be against great music. Merry Christmas to all of you & please let the moderators have some peaceful days too.  0:)
… music is not only an 'entertainment’, nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #2673 on: December 24, 2019, 03:58:41 PM »
Merry Christmas, Harry! And of course to both mentioned, especially Mirror image who's a really fine & unmissable contributor to this forum, also Madiel for his real insight into the music of Holmboe, one of my very special composers and who's with him cannot be against great music. Merry Christmas to all of you & please let the moderators have some peaceful days too.  0:)

Thank you, Johan and the same to you. Merry Christmas!
"Close communion with the people is the natural soil nourishing all my work.” - Aram Khachaturian

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #2674 on: January 06, 2020, 10:36:01 PM »
Fergus (Aligreto) has gone a bit quiet. Hope he is ok.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #2675 on: January 07, 2020, 08:54:24 AM »
I haven’t seen King Ubu in quite some time. I miss his contributions.
"Close communion with the people is the natural soil nourishing all my work.” - Aram Khachaturian

Offline Madiel

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #2676 on: January 08, 2020, 01:35:40 PM »
You probably won't see me for about 6 days. Fleeing the smoke.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Offline Rinaldo

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #2677 on: January 08, 2020, 01:38:49 PM »
You probably won't see me for about 6 days. Fleeing the smoke.

Ugh. Stay safe!

Offline Madiel

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #2678 on: January 08, 2020, 01:41:51 PM »
Just to be clear, I'm not in any direct danger from fires. But Canberra is exceptionally good at trapping the smoke (and my part of Canberra is best of all) from the fires to the east, and the south...and the west... And my lungs are definitely feeling the effects after we became the most polluted city in the world twice last week.

So I'm taking a holiday elsewhere. The air in Queensland is (currently!) pristine.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Offline André

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #2679 on: January 08, 2020, 01:49:49 PM »