Author Topic: Missing Members  (Read 653857 times)

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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #3180 on: February 13, 2021, 08:09:27 AM »
When I participated in the political thread what I found was that there seemed to a majority of members from the left and I, and maybe one other person, represented the right, or opposing view.  Even though I thought I was offering reasoned and thoughtful posts, they were routinely lampooned, ridiculed, and most people responded in what I would describe a snarky fashion: one line put downs, sarcasm, and other forms of disrespectful treatment of my view.

This is why I gave up on the thread - there was no productive, thoughtful, discussion.

Would it be possible to ask Rob why he is so committed to having this kind of thread on GMG?  Or create a poll to see just how much support they have?

I believe the poll idea was acted upon earlier.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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Offline Florestan

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #3181 on: February 13, 2021, 08:18:43 AM »
Anyone who believes otherwise is at complete uncurtailed liberty to demonstrate otherwise if he can.  I never assert that any person whose opinion is merely different, diverging, or antagonistic to mine is medically incapable of arguing in good faith.

When my grandad dandled me on his knee in Bum's Landing, New Jersey, one of the things he taught me was: the devil cannot endure to be mocked. I took it as a lesson in human humility.

Karl, your PM inbox is full!
Music expresses that which cannot be said and on which it is impossible to be silent. --- Victor Hugo

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #3182 on: February 13, 2021, 08:35:31 AM »
When I participated in the political thread what I found was that there seemed to a majority of members from the left and I, and maybe one other person, represented the right, or opposing view.  Even though I thought I was offering reasoned and thoughtful posts, they were routinely lampooned, ridiculed, and most people responded in what I would describe a snarky fashion: one line put downs, sarcasm, and other forms of disrespectful treatment of my view.

This is why I gave up on the thread - there was no productive, thoughtful, discussion.

Would it be possible to ask Rob why he is so committed to having this kind of thread on GMG?  Or create a poll to see just how much support they have?

I started a poll about the very topic in which you mentioned and you can review the results here:

https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,30402.0.html
"I believe that Strauss will remain one of the characteristic and outstanding figures in musical history. Works like Salome, Elektra and Intermezzo, and others will not perish.” - Arnold Schoenberg on Richard Strauss

Offline Florestan

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #3183 on: February 13, 2021, 08:41:19 AM »
I started a poll about the very topic in which you mentioned and you can review the results here:

https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,30402.0.html

I voted NO back then but in the light of recent development I'd vote YES.

As Bossuet (I think) put it, We should not allow people to utterly disgrace themselves.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2021, 08:45:57 AM by Florestan »
Music expresses that which cannot be said and on which it is impossible to be silent. --- Victor Hugo

Offline Wanderer

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #3184 on: February 13, 2021, 08:56:11 AM »
In the present case, at least, that would have made no difference. I have no expectation that Handelian would have muted the thread: he was here to troll (i.e. he was bent on being part of the problem.

I was neither referring specifically to the latest case, nor made the proposition for the benefit of the offending members, so this is rather irrelevant. The proposition is for the benefit of the rest of us normal people who come to a music forum to read and write about music and do not wish to be constantly spammed by inane threads of political or any other debauchery. The "Show unread posts since last visit" query should at the very least be able to ignore/mute selected threads. I can't imagine that there's any reason why you should have an objection to that.

Offline Wanderer

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #3185 on: February 13, 2021, 08:59:57 AM »
I started a poll about the very topic in which you mentioned and you can review the results here:

Since Rob seems to object to the ban (a view I'd urge him to reconsider) and in order to have the best of both worlds, I strongly believe that the ability to mute selected threads should be made available to members.

Offline Florestan

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #3186 on: February 13, 2021, 09:03:27 AM »
I strongly believe that the ability to mute selected threads should be made available to members.

I do too, and not only with respect to political threads --- but I suspect that it's not in Rob's power to do that, it's the platform itself that doesn't allow it.
Music expresses that which cannot be said and on which it is impossible to be silent. --- Victor Hugo

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #3187 on: February 13, 2021, 10:03:36 AM »
I was neither referring specifically to the latest case, nor made the proposition for the benefit of the offending members, so this is rather irrelevant. The proposition is for the benefit of the rest of us normal people who come to a music forum to read and write about music and do not wish to be constantly spammed by inane threads of political or any other debauchery. The "Show unread posts since last visit" query should at the very least be able to ignore/mute selected threads. I can't imagine that there's any reason why you should have an objection to that.

Your note of the irrelevance is well taken. I have no objection, indeed.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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Boston MA
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[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Online Brian

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #3188 on: February 13, 2021, 10:16:15 AM »
from which brawls and general unpleasantness spill onto the neighbourhood time and time again at regular intervals.
If there were political debates about Tr*mp or B*ris or P*tin happening in "Purchases Today" or the Beethoven thread, I would understand this perspective, but I don't really see those arguments spilling out into musical areas. Sometimes, someone like Florestan connects music to philosophy or religious traditions, but that is very different and totally valid.

when hitting the "Show unread posts since last visit" button. And no, not using this functionality and navigating the forum through the main screen instead is not an acceptable alternative, because it is not convenient.
Ahh, this is a valid point. I do not use the forum that way. I use the forum the "unacceptable, inconvenient" way. I manually click through General, Recordings, Composers, and Jazz, and then sometimes click on the OT book, movie, and food threads. This is to choose which conversations to get involved in. If I clicked "Show unread posts" and read the entire forum as one big digest, yes, it probably would be irritating to see all the political discussions...and the polls on your 17 favorite Welsh art-song writers.  ;D

Offline Florestan

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #3189 on: February 13, 2021, 10:22:30 AM »
Sometimes, someone like Florestan connects music to philosophy or religious traditions, but that is very different and totally valid.

I'm flattered by your remark. Thanks.
Music expresses that which cannot be said and on which it is impossible to be silent. --- Victor Hugo

Online JBS

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #3190 on: February 13, 2021, 10:23:49 AM »
May I point out that we don't have to read every thread. Open the threads you want to read/post in. The "Mark All Messages Read" button will take care of the rest.

But hold on for a moment

Ahh, this is a valid point. I do not use the forum that way. I use the forum the "unacceptable, inconvenient" way. I manually click through General, Recordings, Composers, and Jazz, and then sometimes click on the OT book, movie, and food threads. This is to choose which conversations to get involved in. If I clicked "Show unread posts" and read the entire forum as one big digest, yes, it probably would be irritating to see all the political discussions...and the polls on your 17 favorite Welsh art-song writers.  ;D

The Unread Posts button merely shows me a trimmed down version, with the threads most recently posted in at the top. It doesn't give me a digest. Does it differ between OSs or something?

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Offline DavidW

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #3191 on: February 13, 2021, 10:23:54 AM »
Ahh, this is a valid point. I do not use the forum that way. I use the forum the "unacceptable, inconvenient" way. I manually click through General, Recordings, Composers, and Jazz, and then sometimes click on the OT book, movie, and food threads. This is to choose which conversations to get involved in. If I clicked "Show unread posts" and read the entire forum as one big digest, yes, it probably would be irritating to see all the political discussions...and the polls on your 17 favorite Welsh art-song writers.  ;D

Brian that is totally bananas!  It is way faster to view the unread posts.  We have so many rooms.  I'm guessing you're also the type to listen to vinyl just to put effort into setting it up and flipping the sides.  And you also bake all your bread from scratch! ;D

Offline Florestan

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #3192 on: February 13, 2021, 10:25:57 AM »
I wish I could unsubscribe from about 75% of the threads I've been posting in all these years...  ;D
Music expresses that which cannot be said and on which it is impossible to be silent. --- Victor Hugo

Online Brian

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #3193 on: February 13, 2021, 11:35:20 AM »
The Unread Posts button merely shows me a trimmed down version, with the threads most recently posted in at the top. It doesn't give me a digest. Does it differ between OSs or something?

I don't know, I haven't clicked it in years, but I assumed that the people complaining they have to see politics must be clicking on some kind of button which shows them all of the posts, not just thread titles??

Brian that is totally bananas!  It is way faster to view the unread posts.  We have so many rooms.  I'm guessing you're also the type to listen to vinyl just to put effort into setting it up and flipping the sides.  And you also bake all your bread from scratch! ;D

Hahaha! No record player but my girlfriend does bake all our bread  ;D

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #3194 on: February 13, 2021, 11:38:12 AM »
I don't know, I haven't clicked it in years, but I assumed that the people complaining they have to see politics must be clicking on some kind of button which shows them all of the posts, not just thread titles??

Hahaha! No record player but my girlfriend does bake all our bread  ;D

Nothing better than home-baked bread (not that I bake any, myself.)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline DavidW

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #3195 on: February 13, 2021, 12:26:15 PM »
It seems like everybody I know took it upon themselves to make sourdough bread from scratch in the past year.

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #3196 on: February 13, 2021, 02:21:09 PM »
FWIW, I don't care for sourdough.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #3197 on: February 13, 2021, 03:52:53 PM »
FWIW, I don't care for sourdough.

After a year and a half in San Francisco, where that is all you can get, I developed a taste for sourdough. Enough of one to be generally critical of what I can get elsewhere. Damn it, if it's supposed to be sour, then make it so!  >:(  :)

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Offline DavidW

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #3198 on: February 13, 2021, 04:01:50 PM »
FWIW, I don't care for sourdough.

If you have fresh sourdough you might change your mind.

Offline Madiel

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Re: Missing Members
« Reply #3199 on: February 13, 2021, 05:46:34 PM »
Since Rob seems to object to the ban (a view I'd urge him to reconsider) and in order to have the best of both worlds, I strongly believe that the ability to mute selected threads should be made available to members.

The technology doesn't exist.

I mean, I literally asked about this years ago, thoroughly sick of having One Word Posts or some similarly inane thread appear in the 'new replies to your posts' list. But the technology that the forum runs on doesn't have this option. Once you've posted on a thread it will show up there (even if you delete the post).

And of course 'show unread posts' will show all threads whether you've posted on them or not.

But the fact remains, members are not obliged to read these threads. They are certainly not obliged to participate in them. Everyone who participates in political threads has decided to do so. Yes, that might be because various bits of their lower primal brain have been triggered, but people have to make choices about these things, and can teach themselves to stop participating even if they started.

I maintain the view that people who are participating in the political threads more than the music ones are doing so simply because they find politics more 'interesting' in some way that music. If you didn't have the political threads here on GMG as an option, I am not convinced that this would somehow cause them to be less interested in politics and more interested in music, it would just mean that they engaged their interest in politics somewhere other than GMG.

Would it insulate GMG from drama? Yes. Would the result be fewer people leaving GMG? Again I'm not that convinced. It would perhaps just mean more people leaving quietly and fewer people doing the drama queen flame-out of deleting their accounts (an action that seems way, way more popular on GMG than I've ever seen anywhere else). You might not notice them leaving, but I reckon a lot of them would still be effectively leaving, spending their time being engaged in political discussion wherever that was occurring.

If you want more activity in the classical threads, the solution is not to stop people talking about other things, the solution is to make the classical threads more interesting.
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