Author Topic: Missing Members  (Read 653857 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 58486
  • Et quid amabo nisi quod ænigma est?
    • Henningmusick
  • Location: Boston, Mass.
  • Currently Listening to:
    Shostakovich, D. Scarlattii, Stravinsky, JS Bach, Liszt, Martinů, Haydn, Henning
Re: Missing Members
« Reply #3200 on: February 13, 2021, 06:03:10 PM »
If you have fresh sourdough you might change your mind.

I expect you're right, Davey!
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Online JBS

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4609
  • If music be the food of love, play on!
  • Location: USA
Re: Missing Members
« Reply #3201 on: February 13, 2021, 06:37:59 PM »
It seems like everybody I know took it upon themselves to make sourdough bread from scratch in the past year.

Sourdough for a sour year, perhaps?

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

Offline Gurn Blanston

  • Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 32143
  • Support your local Haydn Society
    • Gurn's Haydn Blog
  • Location: Texas, where else?
  • Currently Listening to:
    Haydn, I reckon.
Re: Missing Members
« Reply #3202 on: February 13, 2021, 07:02:47 PM »
The technology doesn't exist.

I mean, I literally asked about this years ago, thoroughly sick of having One Word Posts or some similarly inane thread appear in the 'new replies to your posts' list. But the technology that the forum runs on doesn't have this option. Once you've posted on a thread it will show up there (even if you delete the post).

And of course 'show unread posts' will show all threads whether you've posted on them or not.

But the fact remains, members are not obliged to read these threads. They are certainly not obliged to participate in them. Everyone who participates in political threads has decided to do so. Yes, that might be because various bits of their lower primal brain have been triggered, but people have to make choices about these things, and can teach themselves to stop participating even if they started.

I maintain the view that people who are participating in the political threads more than the music ones are doing so simply because they find politics more 'interesting' in some way that music. If you didn't have the political threads here on GMG as an option, I am not convinced that this would somehow cause them to be less interested in politics and more interested in music, it would just mean that they engaged their interest in politics somewhere other than GMG.

Would it insulate GMG from drama? Yes. Would the result be fewer people leaving GMG? Again I'm not that convinced. It would perhaps just mean more people leaving quietly and fewer people doing the drama queen flame-out of deleting their accounts (an action that seems way, way more popular on GMG than I've ever seen anywhere else). You might not notice them leaving, but I reckon a lot of them would still be effectively leaving, spending their time being engaged in political discussion wherever that was occurring.

I agree with every bit of this post. In fact, I made a parallel effort with Madiel at the time and tried every control I had access to, to no avail. It just can't be done with this software. Perhaps a future update will include some functionality in that direction. Meantime, I can say that I never click on "Show new replies to your posts", but my scope is necessarily broader than his, I actually have my browser set to launch GMG on the "Show new posts since your last visit" link, because I have to see what people are up to. But that is merely different priorities, not a solution.

It's just like gaining weight: every pound added to your belly came from food YOU put in your mouth. And if you hate political discussion and its associated rancor, but you go there anyway, what the hell??

Quote
If you want more activity in the classical threads, the solution is not to stop people talking about other things, the solution is to make the classical threads more interesting.

I have been preaching this for years. There is nothing new under the sun, people were griping this gripe when I joined this forum 19 years ago. The solution has never changed: if you want more interesting threads, start them. If they truly ARE more interesting, you will have plenty of replies and conversation.

8)
Help support GMG by purchasing from Amazon using this link

Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Follow me on Twitter @GurnBlanston106

Offline Wanderer

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 5622
  • Quo non ascendam?
Re: Missing Members
« Reply #3203 on: February 13, 2021, 11:52:44 PM »
The technology doesn't exist.

I mean, I literally asked about this years ago, thoroughly sick of having One Word Posts or some similarly inane thread appear in the 'new replies to your posts' list. But the technology that the forum runs on doesn't have this option. Once you've posted on a thread it will show up there (even if you delete the post).

And of course 'show unread posts' will show all threads whether you've posted on them or not.

But the fact remains, members are not obliged to read these threads. They are certainly not obliged to participate in them. Everyone who participates in political threads has decided to do so. Yes, that might be because various bits of their lower primal brain have been triggered, but people have to make choices about these things, and can teach themselves to stop participating even if they started.

I maintain the view that people who are participating in the political threads more than the music ones are doing so simply because they find politics more 'interesting' in some way that music. If you didn't have the political threads here on GMG as an option, I am not convinced that this would somehow cause them to be less interested in politics and more interested in music, it would just mean that they engaged their interest in politics somewhere other than GMG.

Would it insulate GMG from drama? Yes. Would the result be fewer people leaving GMG? Again I'm not that convinced. It would perhaps just mean more people leaving quietly and fewer people doing the drama queen flame-out of deleting their accounts (an action that seems way, way more popular on GMG than I've ever seen anywhere else). You might not notice them leaving, but I reckon a lot of them would still be effectively leaving, spending their time being engaged in political discussion wherever that was occurring.

If you want more activity in the classical threads, the solution is not to stop people talking about other things, the solution is to make the classical threads more interesting.

What I want, already stated, is the ability to choose not to be spammed with inane threads in the "Show unread posts since last visit" result page. It surprises me that many of the answers I read here focus instead on the forum's social mechanics. Frankly, I find some of the conjectures made, as well as the very willingness to make them, rather repugnant as it implies members are pawns to be manipulated into this or that action and behaviour. I'm merely asking for some more functionality to be added to the forum for the benefit of everyone that would care to use it. I find it incredible that the forum software gives us the ability to mute posters but, allegedly, not threads. I mean, this is practically medieval.  ;D
Even if the functionality is indeed not possible at the moment, I urge Rob and those software geniuses among us to be on the lookout for the implementation of such a feature when it becomes possible and I'm thanking them in advance for the effort.

Offline The new erato

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 15074
Re: Missing Members
« Reply #3204 on: February 14, 2021, 01:43:33 AM »
I briefly saw a couple of Handelian posts in the politics thread and decided they were not worth bothering with. Much unpleasantness could have been avoided if you were all as wise as me. I have friends with occasional stupid opinions, and I always shut up (not always though) and remember why I like them and consider them good and wortwhile friends. Friendship doesn't preclude discussion, but not all discussions are productive.

Offline Que

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 18710
  • Location: The Hague, Netherlands
Re: Missing Members
« Reply #3205 on: February 14, 2021, 01:50:56 AM »
I briefly saw a couple of Handelian posts in the politics thread and decided they were not worth bothering with. Much unpleasantness could have been avoided if you were all as wise as me. I have friends with occasional stupid opinions, and I always shut up (not always though) and remember why I like them and consider them good and wortwhile friends. Friendship doesn't preclude discussion, but not all discussions are productive.

You are right, and wise!  :)

We should all try to suppress the urge to engage in pointless exchanges which do not merit the term debate or discussion.

Q

Offline Madiel

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 9926
    • A musical diary
  • Location: Canberra, Australia
  • Currently Listening to:
    Whatever's listed in my blog.
Re: Missing Members
« Reply #3206 on: February 14, 2021, 01:54:13 AM »
What I want, already stated, is the ability to choose not to be spammed with inane threads in the "Show unread posts since last visit" result page. It surprises me that many of the answers I read here focus instead on the forum's social mechanics. Frankly, I find some of the conjectures made, as well as the very willingness to make them, rather repugnant as it implies members are pawns to be manipulated into this or that action and behaviour. I'm merely asking for some more functionality to be added to the forum for the benefit of everyone that would care to use it. I find it incredible that the forum software gives us the ability to mute posters but, allegedly, not threads. I mean, this is practically medieval.  ;D
Even if the functionality is indeed not possible at the moment, I urge Rob and those software geniuses among us to be on the lookout for the implementation of such a feature when it becomes possible and I'm thanking them in advance for the effort.

Yes, and you even put your request in bold a lot. It can't happen, however incredible you find that, and I wouldn't hold your breath that the software is going to develop those features.

MEANWHILE, we're talking about ways you can deal with the situation while your wish is impossible to grant. You can either deal with the social mechanics, or you can do nothing and wish for a technological solution that doesn't currently exist. Your choice.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Offline Wanderer

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 5622
  • Quo non ascendam?
Re: Missing Members
« Reply #3207 on: February 14, 2021, 02:53:40 AM »
I wouldn't hold your breath that the software is going to develop those features.

It is conceivable that you're making it sound more implausible than it actually is.


You can either deal with the social mechanics, or you can do nothing...

That's a false dilemma.

And what the moderators have been doing, dealing with the fires borne out of all the needless political rancour, is not social mechanics.


Offline Wanderer

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 5622
  • Quo non ascendam?
Re: Missing Members
« Reply #3208 on: February 14, 2021, 03:06:08 AM »
I actually have my browser set to launch GMG on the "Show new posts since your last visit" link...

That's what I have done, as well, since the very beginning. Browsing through the main category pages is occasionally useful, but I find it is more cumbersome and inconvenient, as e.g. it is not usually readily obvious which threads you have already read in full and which you have not and often one needlessly opens or scrolls down a thread merely to find out that no new contributions have been made.


Offline Wanderer

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 5622
  • Quo non ascendam?
Re: Missing Members
« Reply #3209 on: February 14, 2021, 03:08:20 AM »
You are right, and wise!  :)

We should all try to suppress the urge to engage in pointless exchanges which do not merit the term debate or discussion.

Q

So true.


Offline Madiel

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 9926
    • A musical diary
  • Location: Canberra, Australia
  • Currently Listening to:
    Whatever's listed in my blog.
Re: Missing Members
« Reply #3210 on: February 14, 2021, 04:29:37 AM »
It is conceivable that you're making it sound more implausible than it actually is.

I asked for the feature 5 years ago at least, probably more like 7, and I can't recall seeing it on other sites either. Draw your conclusions.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 58486
  • Et quid amabo nisi quod ænigma est?
    • Henningmusick
  • Location: Boston, Mass.
  • Currently Listening to:
    Shostakovich, D. Scarlattii, Stravinsky, JS Bach, Liszt, Martinů, Haydn, Henning
Re: Missing Members
« Reply #3211 on: February 14, 2021, 06:49:49 AM »
You are right, and wise!  :)

We should all try to suppress the urge to engage in pointless exchanges which do not merit the term debate or discussion.

Q

Plain good sense.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline Mirror Image

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 54077
  • Richard Strauss (1864 - 1949)
  • Location: Northeast GA, US
  • Currently Listening to:
    Frohe Streiche und Windmühlen
Re: Missing Members
« Reply #3212 on: February 14, 2021, 07:43:02 AM »
I briefly saw a couple of Handelian posts in the politics thread and decided they were not worth bothering with. Much unpleasantness could have been avoided if you were all as wise as me. I have friends with occasional stupid opinions, and I always shut up (not always though) and remember why I like them and consider them good and wortwhile friends. Friendship doesn't preclude discussion, but not all discussions are productive.

Wise words, indeed.
"I believe that Strauss will remain one of the characteristic and outstanding figures in musical history. Works like Salome, Elektra and Intermezzo, and others will not perish.” - Arnold Schoenberg on Richard Strauss

Online JBS

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4609
  • If music be the food of love, play on!
  • Location: USA
Re: Missing Members
« Reply #3213 on: February 14, 2021, 08:31:15 AM »
What I want, already stated, is the ability to choose not to be spammed with inane threads in the "Show unread posts since last visit" result page. It surprises me that many of the answers I read here focus instead on the forum's social mechanics. Frankly, I find some of the conjectures made, as well as the very willingness to make them, rather repugnant as it implies members are pawns to be manipulated into this or that action and behaviour. I'm merely asking for some more functionality to be added to the forum for the benefit of everyone that would care to use it. I find it incredible that the forum software gives us the ability to mute posters but, allegedly, not threads. I mean, this is practically medieval.  ;D
Even if the functionality is indeed not possible at the moment, I urge Rob and those software geniuses among us to be on the lookout for the implementation of such a feature when it becomes possible and I'm thanking them in advance for the effort.

At the risk of being a bore, I'll repeat what I have said before: we don't need to read all the threads. Open only the threads you wish to read, then click on the button that says "mark all messages as read" to take care of the rest.

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

Offline Wanderer

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 5622
  • Quo non ascendam?
Re: Missing Members
« Reply #3214 on: February 14, 2021, 09:14:19 AM »
At the risk of being a bore, I'll repeat what I have said before: we don't need to read all the threads. Open only the threads you wish to read, then click on the button that says "mark all messages as read" to take care of the rest.

«We don't need to read all the spam. Open only the e-mails you wish to read, then click on the button that says "mark all spam as read" to take care of the rest.»

Someone says “It would be beneficial to the forum to be able to filter spam from one’s result page” and you feel compelled to answer with “Spam is OK. You don’t have to read it.” This mentality is part of the problem.  ::) ;D

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 58486
  • Et quid amabo nisi quod ænigma est?
    • Henningmusick
  • Location: Boston, Mass.
  • Currently Listening to:
    Shostakovich, D. Scarlattii, Stravinsky, JS Bach, Liszt, Martinů, Haydn, Henning
Re: Missing Members
« Reply #3215 on: February 14, 2021, 09:27:24 AM »
Sourdough for a sour year, perhaps?

(* chortle *)

Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline DavidW

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 763
  • Location: South Carolina, USA
Re: Missing Members
« Reply #3216 on: February 14, 2021, 10:34:37 AM »
Friendship doesn't preclude discussion, but not all discussions are productive.

In the past year we've seen a pandemic, BLM unrest and an insurrection.  While at the best of times a politics thread can be unruly, this is the worst of times and nobody is dispassionate no matter their political leanings.  So I don't think that the discussion has been terribly productive.  But... it has to be like only 1% of the content on the forum.

Offline Madiel

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 9926
    • A musical diary
  • Location: Canberra, Australia
  • Currently Listening to:
    Whatever's listed in my blog.
Re: Missing Members
« Reply #3217 on: February 14, 2021, 12:00:09 PM »
«We don't need to read all the spam. Open only the e-mails you wish to read, then click on the button that says "mark all spam as read" to take care of the rest.»

Someone says “It would be beneficial to the forum to be able to filter spam from one’s result page” and you feel compelled to answer with “Spam is OK. You don’t have to read it.” This mentality is part of the problem.  ::) ;D

The responses you are getting are in the context of you being told that we do not have a spam filter. And we aren’t getting one.

You can keep rejecting every good answer because it’s not your perfect answer, but it’s not going to change anything. Been there, done that.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Offline Mirror Image

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 54077
  • Richard Strauss (1864 - 1949)
  • Location: Northeast GA, US
  • Currently Listening to:
    Frohe Streiche und Windmühlen
Re: Missing Members
« Reply #3218 on: February 14, 2021, 09:55:34 PM »
FWIW, I don't care for sourdough.

I love it. In particular, with corn beef shredded extra fine (preferably heated up) with some spicy mustard, mayo and baby Swiss cheese. Yum...oh, sorry I’m getting a bit carried away here. :P
"I believe that Strauss will remain one of the characteristic and outstanding figures in musical history. Works like Salome, Elektra and Intermezzo, and others will not perish.” - Arnold Schoenberg on Richard Strauss

Offline Wanderer

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 5622
  • Quo non ascendam?
Re: Missing Members
« Reply #3219 on: February 14, 2021, 10:18:09 PM »
it’s not going to change anything.

This mentality is definitely part of the problem. But who cares, when... it's snowing outside my window right at this very moment. It's snowing in Athens!  8)