Missing Members

Started by Cato, October 24, 2011, 07:14:12 AM

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Henk

#960
Maybe when wiser he will return. People on forums often behave stubborn and provocative, more in real life probably. Excitement, fear of losing reputation and so. I don't rule out that he is sad, and he doesn't show this. However, I never followed his activity that much to say fruitful things about it.

Moonfish

#961
Quote from: Ken B on January 16, 2015, 08:44:48 AM
I found his Brahms avatar offensive.


;)

Was it the beard?

Go Brahms!! 
"Every time you spend money you are casting a vote for the kind of world you want...."
Anna Lappé

knight66

Quote from: Moonfish on January 16, 2015, 05:53:54 AM
Why is it that people don't go nuts in the music discussions (apart from Ken of course), while the diner creates firestorms of stupidity?

In all my years here as member and mod, one of the worst firestorms was on a Haydn thread, it made my hair stand on end.

Sad to lose a valuable member, but it was his own choice. Although I attempted it, ultimately is is not my function here to reconcile two very polarised posters. I am not interested in saying anything negative about someone who is no longer around to defend himself, he will be welcome to return any time he feels like it.

Mike (Knight)
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

mc ukrneal

Quote from: knight66 on January 16, 2015, 08:59:48 AM
I am not interested in saying anything negative about someone who is no longer around to defend himself
Mike (Knight)
Thank you. I hope others will take your lead...
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

bhodges

Quote from: knight66 on January 16, 2015, 08:59:48 AM
I am not interested in saying anything negative about someone who is no longer around to defend himself, he will be welcome to return any time he feels like it.

Mike (Knight)

Just want to say that I agree with Mike's comment above, Gurn's assessment of the situation, and Que's original action - all very reasonable under the circumstances. And just a reminder: though any of us can - and does - take action independently on an issue, we discuss these things extensively as a team, and we each bring different skills and viewpoints. (I only wish we had a female moderator for yet another point of view.)

Personally, I also usually decline to discuss religion or politics here, mostly because: I'm here to read about classical music and opinions on recordings, concerts, and other issues related to the field. There are plenty of boards elsewhere to discuss other things.

Anyway, carry on.  8)

--Bruce

Que

#965
Quote from: Discobolus on January 16, 2015, 02:20:06 AM
I suppose it is better if I explain why I will now leave the forum and, contrary to previous times, not be back in the future.

Although not unexpected, this is a pity and I hope you'll rejoin us some time in the future.  :)

QuoteI did not come here for a couple days in order for the moderators to treat this issue calmly. The result is that both avatars have been suppressed as equivalently offensive and because they took "politics outside of the restricted area of the Diner" according to Que (when I have, as I already said, avoided other sections in order to avoid that).
Therefore, at the same time:
a) both images are deemed unacceptable because politically too engaged, when mine is a simple homage made to victims of religious bigotry and terrorist violence;
b) both images are suppressed only as "off-topic", when one is not more than "blasphemy" (and therefore legal in the country where my messages are posted, and where they are hosted, which is all that counts), and the other a call to xenophobic violence (and therefore illegal in the countries where Florestan writes and where the board is hosted).

I therefore leave because:
a) I can't accept to stay here when the official line is to consider blasphemy as an equivalent to xenophobic violence, because it is exactly the argument behind the killings, and it is exactly the reason why so many people have switched from "Je suis Charlie" last week to "wait, stop that now, you were supposed to be dead" in the past couple of days.
b) In addition, of course, freedom of speech doesn't apply here (we are on a forum, privately owned and managed) and there is an editorial line. This case simply proves that this editorial line is very lenient on far-right ideas, up to the point of hesitating in the censoring of hate speech and other illegal discourses against racial or religious categories, and jumping on blasphemy when it concerns Catholicism (at the same time, the recent cover aimed at Islam only was posted on the Charlie thread without any hesitation).

[...]

And that the equivalency proposed by moderators between "blasphemy against other religions than muslim" and "incitation to violent actions against all muslims and arabs" is the result of a very coherent, deeply debated and truly shared editorial line here.
My interest in music, and my wish to kill a few hours discussing it online, is not so strong that I would renounce to a few personal basic principles, and endorse what this forum endorses as its editorial line. It is with great joy that I realized this is not at all where I belong, and leave your company.

Discobolus.

I am surprised that you can't accept that both avatars were considered equivalent only in the way they were both center point of a undesirable clash between two members and took a political feud outside of the Diner. We did not take sides and did not take a position on the respective political/ideological motives behind using the avatars or the obviously different points of view on the desirable relation between blasphemy and free speech. Objectively, both images were offensive to some degree - leaving aside any comparative qualification or appraisal. But frankly that was not a primary concern (yet). Our primary duty is to keep the peace around here, not to arbitrate in political disputes.

QuoteThis case simply proves that this editorial line is very lenient on far-right ideas, up to the point of hesitating in the censoring of hate speech and other illegal discourses against racial or religious categories, and jumping on blasphemy when it concerns Catholicism

"very lenient on far-right ideas"... Well, well, as it happens another poster accused us of a left-wing bias in this matter - taking your side. What do you know?  ::)  :D   So it goes... :laugh:
As far as hate-speech is concerned - we have intervened plenty of times in the past against that.
Hate speech against muslims and anti-semitism was actually kind of a speciality of the mentioned Josquin - one of the two members ever banned on my watch so far.
But unfortunately (or rather: fortunately) you were not around at that time...

Best, Que

Christo

Well said and wisely moderated. A pity so much of your time and energy is asked to deal with members who cannot accept elementary rules of human conduct.  ::)
... music is not only an 'entertainment', nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

knight66

Folks, thank you very much for the support, it is appreciated. I look forward to the bulk chocolates and whisky.

It is often the case that I am taking the part of someone with whom I fundamentally disagree, we all do this and there are many assumptions made of what our leanings are. As has been suggested, we are often accused of bias by both sides of an argument. (Rolls eyes.)

Those reading the leaving statement closely may be amused that one reason for leaving was due to the posting of this week's front cover by the magazine. However, D had specifically asked me to post It. My counter suggestion was, that as he had said he would change his avatar, he change it to that cover as a gesture of  reconciliation. Without being aware of that exchange Gurn then posted it......but, water under the bridge. On with the motley.

Knight
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

Ken B

I am not saying I would have moderated the way our moderators did, but I detect neither bias nor unfairness in what they did. They were impartial. To argue, as at least two posters here did, that impartiality in moderation is a fault is to seriously misunderstand the moderator's proper role. I am glad none of our actual moderators fell into that error.

Karl Henning

Fall into the whiskey, and trip over the chocolate, just possibly.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Henk

One word posts is the worst thread. It takes away too much attention. Monkey Greg left the house with not a great heritage.

Florestan

One last thing from me on the issue.

I had private communication with three moderators and I did not detect the slightest bias in any of them, nor did I object in any way when one of them erased both avatars.

Just to be clear: I did not want this conflict, I did not start it and I am not glad at its outcome.
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Karl Henning

Greg is settling into a new job, pops in a-lurking from time to time, and looks forward to coming back in more participatory wise.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: karlhenning on January 17, 2015, 07:10:27 AM
Greg is settling into a new job, pops in a-lurking from time to time, and looks forward to coming back in more participatory wise.

Thanks for the info, Karl.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Karl Henning

Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Cato

I just skimmed through this topic, and was concerned about "Monkey Greg's" absence!  Good news indeed!
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Mirror Image

Quote from: karlhenning on January 17, 2015, 07:10:27 AM
Greg is settling into a new job, pops in a-lurking from time to time, and looks forward to coming back in more participatory wise.

That's good to hear, Karl. I miss my sock monkey friend. :)

Moonfish

We should all listen to Bruckner 6 in honor of his imminent return to GMG!!   :P
"Every time you spend money you are casting a vote for the kind of world you want...."
Anna Lappé

Mirror Image

Quote from: Moonfish on January 17, 2015, 07:31:20 PM
We should all listen to Bruckner 6 in honor of his imminent return to GMG!!   :P

Or Elgar or R. Strauss or Britten or....Greg likes so many composers. :)

EigenUser

Quote from: Moonfish on January 17, 2015, 07:31:20 PM
We should all listen to Bruckner 6 in honor of his imminent return to GMG!!   :P
If I temporarily left, would you all listen to Ligeti? :laugh: :P ;)
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".