Unpopular Opinions

[Karl Henning]

"I try to tell them nicely, but they just come back for more . . . ."

[71 dB]

You are really living in the worst place if you are not fond of Sibelius. If you go to Austria, France or southern Europe, I don't think Sibelius is very popular there.

At some point in history French people considered Sibelius the "worst composer in the world." That's being TOO negative. Sibelius isn't THAT bad...  0:)

[71 dB]

Every so often, young men wearing suits ride their bikes to my door, ring the bell and ask whether I've heard of Sibelius...

Young men wearing suits came to our door when I was a teenager. They didn't talk about Sibelius. Instead they talked about creation (at that time ID wasn't invented yet I believe) and I had to educate those morons about evolution. They left fast in confusion.  

[Uhor]

Don't forget horizontal gene transfer.

[Ken B]

No you don't, trust me. We live on a planet where worshipping Sibelius is considered a virtue and any critisism against his music is considered heretic and is frown upon. I am forever considered an outcast because of my opinions of Sibelius. How easy life would be if I simply found Sibelius as great a composer as Elgar? But I don't. To make it worse, I don't even life in the UK! I live in the worst possible place in this sense, Finland! 

Unlike me, you may have hope so I recommend you to turn to Sibelius nuts instead. Your life will be so much easier if you just worship every note Sibelius ever composed. That's because there is this principle called accumulation of advantage.

Pffft. Try being a La Mer skeptic.

[PerfectWagnerite]

71dB you are really a broken record. Having been on this forum for 10 yrs (sadly) this must be the 10th time you have hijacked a thread with your endless drivel regarding your disdain for certain "popular" composers. We get it that you don"get" Sibelius, or that you think Dittersdorf is as great a composer as Bach. Instead of just saying you don't like their music you have to go out of your way to marginalize their greatness which is the part I don't understand. There are a number of "greats" that I don't really get (Brahms, most of Schumann) but I would never for a second doubt that their works are great in every sense of the word.

BTW who has said on this forum said that every single note that Sibelius has ever written is great?

[Mahlerian]

BTW who has said on this forum said that every single note that Sibelius has ever written is great?

Given the amount of mediocre music he spun out on a regular basis, I'd be surprised if anyone said that.

[71 dB]

71dB you are really a broken record. Having been on this forum for 10 yrs (sadly)

12 years I believe... 

this must be the 10th time you have hijacked a thread with your endless drivel regarding your disdain for certain "popular" composers.

10 times sounds about right.

We get it that you don"get" Sibelius, or that you think Dittersdorf is as great a composer as Bach.

I have never said Dittersdorf is as great a composer as Bach. Well, maybe as great as a lesser Bach, but not J.S., not even close! However, I think Dittersdorf was a great composer of his time and in that sense overlooked compared to how celebrated Haydn (not Michael, but the other one  ) is.

Instead of just saying you don't like their music you have to go out of your way to marginalize their greatness which is the part I don't understand.

The greatness of most composers is passively marginalized all the time by ignorance.

There are a number of "greats" that I don't really get (Brahms, most of Schumann) but I would never for a second doubt that their works are great in every sense of the word.

Why not doubt? Are you so certain of the correctness of history? I am the first person to admit that Brahms wrote very good chamber music, but are his symphonies really that great after all or is it just an example of the principle of cumulative advantage?

BTW who has said on this forum said that every single note that Sibelius has ever written is great?

Probably nobody, but it's only a matter of time before someone does.

[PerfectWagnerite]

The greatness of most composers is passively marginalized all the time by ignorance.

And why do you think most think the Haydn (not Michael, although it would be close) is a better composer than Dittersdorf? Is it some kind of conspiracy theory?

but are his symphonies really that great after all or is it just an example of the principle of cumulative advantage?

Yes they are that great, every single one of them, every movt a textbook on form whether it is sonata, theme and variation, or passacaglia. That I have zero doubt.

[Jo498]

Again, outside Finland not being extremely fond of Sibelius is hardly out of the ordinary.

[71 dB]

And why do you think most think the Haydn (not Michael, although it would be close) is a better composer than Dittersdorf? Is it some kind of conspiracy theory?

Even I consider Haydn a better composer, but just a little, not 10 times better.

Yes they are that great, every single one of them, every movt a textbook on form whether it is sonata, theme and variation, or passacaglia. That I have zero doubt.

So, being a textbook on form is all music is? 

[mc ukrneal]

There's always a flavor of the month here (and some seem to last years). When the comments are insightful, or challenging, or observant, or somehow educating, then I still enjoy the discussions. When the comments go on and on and on about how wonderful and great and wonderful said composer is without much else to say (outside of the composer thread about that composer, which I think should be a place to discuss the composers without the nay-sayers), then the discussion can get tedious, mostly because of the sheer repetition.

I do believe that part of it is the belief that some pieces are 'deeper' than others (which then translates to the value of the composer), particularly dark, brooding works of some length and thus, there is more 'worth' to those pieces (and composers). It's like the argument that it's easier to be funny than to be serious (thinking of films, but it applies to music too). I think it's nonsense, but a lot of people adhere to it. That doesn't mean we have to agree with them.

The 'great' conversation about composers tends to be too opinion driven without enough discussion for the underlying reasons. And then it's just a matter of who can shout louder. Gives me a headache - especially on forums like this, where there's a lot of shouting at times!

[PerfectWagnerite]

This seems to be the right thread though for shouting over one another.

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

Unpopular opinion: Sibelius's Symphony No. 4 is practically ruined by a lightweight, miserable puff of a finale. I think it's a real shame that the three incredibly strong movements preceding it should be capped off in such a way.

HAhaah, I think it is texturally rather thin, but perhaps a new interpretation could be made out of this finale to give it some emotional depth

[amw]

Again, outside Finland not being extremely fond of Sibelius is hardly out of the ordinary.

Well, outside Finland and this particular internet forum. >_>

[Madiel]

71dB you are really a broken record. Having been on this forum for 10 yrs (sadly) this must be the 10th time you have hijacked a thread with your endless drivel regarding your disdain for certain "popular" composers.

This is the unpopular opinions thread. It's not exactly a hijacking when someone goes against the flow. Nor did 71dB start the talk about Sibelius.

I mean, I nearly died when there was talk against the 4th symphony, so I know whodunnit.

[PerfectWagnerite]

This is the unpopular opinions thread. It's not exactly a hijacking when someone goes against the flow. Nor did 71dB start the talk about Sibelius.

I mean, I nearly died when there was talk against the 4th symphony, so I know whodunnit.

True. I was wrong to call him out.

[Crudblud]

I mean, I nearly died when there was talk against the 4th symphony, so I know whodunnit.

Two souls destined to clash whenever and wherever we meet.

[Jo498]

I also think that the finale of Sibelius' 4th is somewhat irritating with that strange "bimm bamm". Apparently there seems to be a discussion what kind of bells or glockenspiel Sibelius had in mind with some people trying different bells for a more sombre sound. But I don't think that it ruins the whole piece.

[Madiel]

Et tu, Jo498?