Author Topic: Unpopular Opinions  (Read 269691 times)

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Parsifal

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2020 on: June 23, 2017, 10:09:09 AM »
Oh, but I do give credit where credit is due. There is no doubt that Wagner singlehandedly* turned opera from the most "democratic" and popular form of music into an esoteric cult for the happy few --- heck, he even instituted a Mecca and a hajj. There is no God except The Gesamkunstwerk, and Wagner is His prophet.  ;D >:D :P

Seriously now, I am only too happy Wagner's path was actually followed by few; had he succeeded in imposing his views, all subsequent music would have consisted only of Rings and Parsifals --- ie, boredom, conceit and egomania would have reigned supreme, signalling the end of music as an art form, period.

You certainly have cultivated the typical discussion board psychosis to a tee. Wagner did not 'impose his views' on the music world. Maybe he would have wanted to, but he had no such power. He simply wrote his music (accompanied by some ill-considered tracts) and sent it out into the world. To the extent that subsequent composers were influenced by his work is on them, not Wagner.

Offline Florestan

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2021 on: June 23, 2017, 10:12:35 AM »
You certainly have the cultivated typical discussion board psychosis to a tee.

You certainly lack any sense of humor and you certainly take discussion boards way too seriously. Listening to too much Wagner, perhaps?
“I compose music because I must give expression to my feelings, just as I talk because I must give utterance to my thoughts.”  --- Rachmaninoff

Offline Florestan

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2022 on: June 23, 2017, 10:14:05 AM »
Andrei, ever hear of Darmstadt?

If I said that I'd take Wagner over Darmstadt any day and night, would it answer your question?
“I compose music because I must give expression to my feelings, just as I talk because I must give utterance to my thoughts.”  --- Rachmaninoff

Parsifal

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2023 on: June 23, 2017, 10:27:39 AM »
You certainly lack any sense of humor and you certainly take discussion boards way too seriously. Listening to too much Wagner, perhaps?

Maybe you're the one that lacks a sense of humor and takes things too seriously?  :D

Offline Ken B

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2024 on: June 23, 2017, 10:31:10 AM »
Maybe you're the one that lacks a sense of humor and takes things too seriously?  :D

Andrei certainly does not lack a sense of humor. I've heard him praise Angela Merkel.
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Turner

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2025 on: June 23, 2017, 10:45:17 AM »
A complete Polka lasting 31 seconds, by Wagner

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxARd6Dblz4

Offline Abuelo Igor

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2026 on: June 23, 2017, 02:47:58 PM »
The performances almost make them appear to be different works when compared to other renditions that I have. I even thought my CD player was skipping, it seemed so different. 😧

Maybe you don't like it, but I think they used to call that "interpretation". Unless you have your score in hand and you catch the musician actually ignoring what is written, "making them appear to be different works" is not necessarily bad.

But I must add that for some years that was the only Scriabin piano recording that I had and just couldn't get into the music until I listened to other versions, so you may be onto something there...

Unfortunately, my second version, the one that sold me on Scriabin, was Szidon's, which is commonly reputed to be even worse, so my credentials are far from impeccable...  :P
« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 02:59:19 PM by Abuelo Igor »
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Offline Florestan

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2027 on: June 23, 2017, 09:26:13 PM »
Andrei certainly does not lack a sense of humor. I've heard him praise Angela Merkel.

How can you not like her? She's sexy, smart and tough...
“I compose music because I must give expression to my feelings, just as I talk because I must give utterance to my thoughts.”  --- Rachmaninoff

nodogen

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2028 on: June 23, 2017, 10:25:10 PM »
Maybe you don't like it, but I think they used to call that "interpretation". Unless you have your score in hand and you catch the musician actually ignoring what is written, "making them appear to be different works" is not necessarily bad.

I appreciate your comments.

Yes, I appreciate that it is interpretation. It is an interpretation that I do not care for. I'm not suggesting any errors in performance, I imagine there are none (a score would be no use to an ignoramus like me!). I have heard four other performances and, compared to the Ogdon, I would say that these other four are "in the same ballpark."

But I must add that for some years that was the only Scriabin piano recording that I had and just couldn't get into the music until I listened to other versions, so you may be onto something there...
My experience could have been similar; in that if the Ogdon had been the first Scriabin I had heard then (on that basis) it would have been the last as I would have filed Scriabin away under not enjoyable to listen to.

Turner

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2029 on: June 23, 2017, 10:34:01 PM »
... But I must add that for some years that was the only Scriabin piano recording that I had and just couldn't get into the music until I listened to other versions, so you may be onto something there...

Unfortunately, my second version, the one that sold me on Scriabin, was Szidon's, which is commonly reputed to be even worse, so my credentials are far from impeccable...  :P

Szidon´s recording of the 1st Sonata is highly unusual, and superb.
I think he´s probably pretty good overall, but it´s been a while since I heard something else in that DG set of the sonatas.

nodogen

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2030 on: June 23, 2017, 10:39:33 PM »
She's sexy

Angela Merkel, the German Chancellor? Or another one?

 ::)

ComposerOfAvantGarde

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2031 on: June 23, 2017, 10:55:17 PM »
Here is an interesting unpopular opinion about music https://youtu.be/eYua80VEcBk

Offline Jo498

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2032 on: June 23, 2017, 11:16:52 PM »
It is very popular with me... :D (and I am almost 30 years younger than Scruton)
Scruton can be a pompous ass (but with philosophy professors one usually only has a choice between pompous, pontificating and smug) but he is certainly among the smartest conservative thinkers around (and surprisingly well preserved at 73).
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ComposerOfAvantGarde

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2033 on: June 23, 2017, 11:30:53 PM »
I'm not particularly interested as treating music as a consumer product or a background sound to be quite honest. I'm not against pop music though, for the reasons he expressed.

ComposerOfAvantGarde

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2034 on: June 23, 2017, 11:45:36 PM »
I'm not one to get offended or annoyed by such a thing, I'm just not a fan haha

nodogen

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2035 on: June 24, 2017, 01:53:53 AM »
The ads at the top of this forum's home page keep pushing "Mozart for Meditation." Not sure about that...

Offline Jaakko Keskinen

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2036 on: June 24, 2017, 01:58:30 AM »
Beethoven's Wellingtons Sieg is actually a great work!
"Javert, though frightful, had nothing ignoble about him. Probity, sincerity, candor, conviction, the sense of duty, are things which may become hideous when wrongly directed; but which, even when hideous, remain grand."

- Victor Hugo

Offline Jaakko Keskinen

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2037 on: June 24, 2017, 02:02:57 AM »
Beethoven's Pastoral Symphony is actually underrated because it suffers from the grievous sin of being program music. In opinion of some people if music work dares to express anything else than purely musical ideas, that must mean the work must be a bad one.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2017, 02:04:42 AM by Alberich »
"Javert, though frightful, had nothing ignoble about him. Probity, sincerity, candor, conviction, the sense of duty, are things which may become hideous when wrongly directed; but which, even when hideous, remain grand."

- Victor Hugo

Offline 71 dB

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2038 on: June 24, 2017, 02:07:44 AM »
Beethoven's Pastoral Symphony is actually underrated

Yep, my favorite of Beethoven's symphonies.  0:)
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Offline Crudblud

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2039 on: June 24, 2017, 02:17:54 AM »
Beethoven's Pastoral Symphony is actually underrated because it suffers from the grievous sin of being program music. In opinion of some people if music work dares to express anything else than purely musical ideas, that must mean the work must be a bad one.

In my view a programme cannot make a good piece of music, such as the 6th Symphony of Beethoven, bad, but it also cannot make a bad piece of music good.