Unpopular Opinions

Started by The Six, November 11, 2011, 10:32:51 AM

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Jaakko Keskinen

Quote from: Crudblud on June 24, 2017, 03:17:54 AM
In my view a programme cannot make a good piece of music, such as the 6th Symphony of Beethoven, bad, but it also cannot make a bad piece of music good.

Fair enough.  :)
"Javert, though frightful, had nothing ignoble about him. Probity, sincerity, candor, conviction, the sense of duty, are things which may become hideous when wrongly directed; but which, even when hideous, remain grand."

- Victor Hugo

Jaakko Keskinen

Quote from: α | ì Æ ñ on June 24, 2017, 03:31:55 AM
Well I like the fourth movement!

That is actually my favorite. Thunderstorm depicted musically, pure awesomeness!

And yes, I like this symphony better than any other symphony from Old Ludwig's pen.
"Javert, though frightful, had nothing ignoble about him. Probity, sincerity, candor, conviction, the sense of duty, are things which may become hideous when wrongly directed; but which, even when hideous, remain grand."

- Victor Hugo

ComposerOfAvantGarde

Quote from: nodogen on June 24, 2017, 02:53:53 AM
The ads at the top of this forum's home page keep pushing "Mozart for Meditation." Not sure about that...

I've been getting some ads for a Mozart festival that Richard Egarr is conducting most of next month here. Thankfully not 'Mozart for meditation!'

Karl Henning

Quote from: jessop on June 24, 2017, 12:30:53 AM
I'm not particularly interested as treating music as a consumer product

Whether we are interested in that or not, that is how much of our society/environment treats it.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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http://www.karlhenning.com/
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nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Florestan

Quote from: Alberich on June 24, 2017, 02:58:30 AM
Beethoven's Wellingtons Sieg is actually a great work!

Very popular with me!
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Florestan

Quote from: Alberich on June 24, 2017, 03:02:57 AM
Beethoven's Pastoral Symphony is actually underrated because it suffers from the grievous sin of being program music. In opinion of some people if music work dares to express anything else than purely musical ideas, that must mean the work must be a bad one.

Well, beside being a musical critic, Hanslick was also a composer. Guess what genre did he cultivated? Absolute music my a$$, he composed Lieder;D
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Abuelo Igor

Quote from: Turner on June 23, 2017, 11:34:01 PM
Szidon´s recording of the 1st Sonata is highly unusual, and superb.
I think he´s probably pretty good overall, but it´s been a while since I heard something else in that DG set of the sonatas.

I know that some people rate Szidon quite poorly on account of playing some wrong notes and being too forceful and passionate, but, sure, that First Sonata is quite scorching, and, because of that set, I became a Scriabin fan for life, preferring his piano works to any of the orchestral pieces.
L'enfant, c'est moi.

PerfectWagnerite

Quote from: Alberich on June 24, 2017, 03:02:57 AM
Beethoven's Pastoral Symphony is actually underrated because it suffers from the grievous sin of being program music. In opinion of some people if music work dares to express anything else than purely musical ideas, that must mean the work must be a bad one.
Sorry, nothing can be underrated when played as often as this piece, granted often the performance is terrible because noone seems to have the patience for this piece anymore. So you get missing exposition repeats, rushed tempo and awful ensemble balance.

71 dB

Quote from: α | ì Æ ñ on June 24, 2017, 03:51:18 AM
The orchestration in the fourth movement I find quite impressive, he gets more sound than I would expect out of his orchestra at that point than I initially expected! The climaxes and falls, plus the timbrel attacks towards the end are like "Is this Beethoven??"  :o

The orchestration of the sixth symphony works much better that the other symphonies. As I have said before (and this seems to be a very unpopular opinion): Beethoven's orchestration is too old-fashioned for his "pioneering proto-romantic" music except for the 6th symphony were Beethoven somehow manages to use romantic ideas because of the nature of the symphony. That's why the symphony works so well and is my favorite of the nine symphonies.

Quote from: α | ì Æ ñ on June 24, 2017, 03:51:18 AMFor me at least, the 6th and 7th are the only two I can actually take seriously.....the other ones, don't really swing with me  :(

Yes, 6th and 7th are Beethoven's best in my opinion.  ;)
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Jo498

I don't find that the 6th sounds particularly "romantic" as far as the actual sounds of the orchestra go.
Among the most "romantic" sounding orchestral Beethoven is the dungeon scene in Fidelio (especially the intro and Florestan's solo scene), then probably the intro of the 4th symphony, the first movement of the 9th symphony, the allegretto of the 7th. Then maybe some parts of the 6th but probably also other pieces, e.g. famous passage (basically the "second theme group) in the first movement of the fifth piano concerto that starts like a funeral march with pizzicato strings and is immediately transformed into the major with rather romantic sounding horns
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nodogen

Quote from: jessop on June 23, 2017, 11:55:17 PM
Here is an interesting unpopular opinion about music https://youtu.be/eYua80VEcBk

Opinion, not philosophy then?

ComposerOfAvantGarde

Quote from: nodogen on June 25, 2017, 03:05:21 AM
Opinion, not philosophy then?

It's still an opinion, is it not?

nodogen



Jaakko Keskinen

#2054
Quote from: Jo498 on June 25, 2017, 01:38:55 AM
I don't find that the 6th sounds particularly "romantic" as far as the actual sounds of the orchestra go.
Among the most "romantic" sounding orchestral Beethoven is the dungeon scene in Fidelio (especially the intro and Florestan's solo scene), then probably the intro of the 4th symphony, the first movement of the 9th symphony, the allegretto of the 7th. Then maybe some parts of the 6th but probably also other pieces, e.g. famous passage (basically the "second theme group) in the first movement of the fifth piano concerto that starts like a funeral march with pizzicato strings and is immediately transformed into the major with rather romantic sounding horns

I would also add Egmont overture. It definitely sounds "romantic" to me. Also the Violin Concerto.

Edit: Wait, you don't find the 5th Symphony as "romantic"? The finale to me is so full of heroic struggle that often is seen as the very essence of "Romanticism".
"Javert, though frightful, had nothing ignoble about him. Probity, sincerity, candor, conviction, the sense of duty, are things which may become hideous when wrongly directed; but which, even when hideous, remain grand."

- Victor Hugo

ComposerOfAvantGarde

I tend to view Beethoven as a kind of ending for the Classical period. Several of his more chromatic works I tend to think are even more closely linked to what was going on in the latter half of the 18th century than they are to the music of Brahms, Liszt, Chopin, Wagner or any other composer whose music epitomises the later stylistic features in composition in the 19th century.

aleazk

Medieval music is as good as the music of any other period. Granted, technically was not as developed as the music from later periods... but, in spirit, is equally profound... if not more... I'll take it any time over the too much hyped late romanticism!  :)

aleazk

Exactly!  :)

It seems we are in the same frequency lately.  :P

Florestan

Quote from: aleazk on June 26, 2017, 06:22:13 AM
Medieval music is as good as the music of any other period. Granted, technically was not as developed as the music from later periods... but, in spirit, is equally profound... if not more...

Agreed.
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Ken B

Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.
Apparently things no-one disagrees with count as unpopular