Unpopular Opinions

[Karl Henning]

A tie, Andrei!  An honor to take part with you.

[Florestan]

A tie, Andrei!  An honor to take part with you.

Likewise, Karl, likewise.

[nathanb]

I got a little drunk last night and came to the realization that Stockhausen haters are a bunch of petty snowflakes.

[Karl Henning]

Welcome back, Nathan!

[71 dB]

I got a little drunk last night and came to the realization that Stockhausen haters are a bunch of petty snowflakes.

I'm not a Stockhausen hater. I just don't know how to explore his works.

[PerfectWagnerite]

Wilhem Furtwangler was a better composer than he was a conductor.

[nathanb]

I'm not a Stockhausen hater. I just don't know how to explore his works.

Then you have not sinned, my brother. Go in peace.

[Karl Henning]

Heaven forfend that we should sin against The Karlheinz!  0:)

[nathanb]

Heaven forfend that we should sin against The Karlheinz!  0:)

As the prophet of Stockhausen, I say unto thee: let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

[Florestan]

I am worse than a sinner, I´m a heretic. I haven´t heard one single note of Stockhausen, nor do I feel any need in this respect.     

[Ken B]

I got a little drunk last night and came to the realization that Stockhausen haters are a bunch of petty snowflakes.

Hell no. We're a bunch of petty granite blocks. The snowflake melts and panics when you point out the emperor has no clothes; pointing that out is the entire substance of Stockhausen bashing. Snowflakes flee our unsparing bluntness.

[nathanb]

I haven´t heard one single note of Stockhausen

As is true of many of Stockhausen's critics. How on earth this entitles one to such a strong opinion is truly beyond me.

[Madiel]

This snowflake listened to several hours of Stockhausen before concluding that was a sufficient dose for many, many years.

About the only interest I'd have now is watching the different prophets of Stockhausen fight it out to determine who is more worthy. Does James know what is going on in here?

[Madiel]

Wilhem Furtwangler was a better composer than he was a conductor.

This doesn't quite tell me whether you think he was a good composer.

[Jo498]

This doesn't quite tell me whether you think he was a good composer.

The opinion will be rather unpopular either way without having us to read his mind.
That Furtwängler was a good composer is unpopular, regardless of what one thinks of his conducting. And if the opinion about the composer is the common/popular one, namely that he was not all that good, than the implication is that he was a pretty bad conductor which is again unpopular.

[Madiel]

The opinion will be rather unpopular either way without having us to read his mind.
That Furtwängler was a good composer is unpopular, regardless of what one thinks of his conducting. And if the opinion about the composer is the common/popular one, namely that he was not all that good, than the implication is that he was a pretty bad conductor which is again unpopular.

I was interested in the opinion, not the popularity of it.

[kishnevi]

This snowflake listened to several hours of Stockhausen before concluding that was a sufficient dose for many, many years.

About the only interest I'd have now is watching the different prophets of Stockhausen fight it out to determine who is more worthy. Does James know what is going on in here?

I have heard only one piece by Stockhausen which I have come close to liking: Tierkreis.  Nor have I heard anything which makes me think it worth the effort of trying to "get" his music (unlike others such as Ligeti, Carter, and Boulez).   Take away most of the extramusical elements, such as the choreography and costuming of performers, and I think we are left with music which has been done better by others.

It is also true that the fanaticism of a certain person in his cause, laced as it was with sneers and disparagement of people who were not as into KHS as he was, turned me against KHS even more than the vapidity (my personal opinion, not meant to be objective and impartial!) of the music.  It is therefore quite astonishing to see recent posts from that gentleman indicating he has drastically changed his opinion of KHS, and indeed may be said to be, like me, bored by KHS's music.

So I don't plan on exploring more Stockhausen.  There is more than enough music by composers active since 1960, and more than enough music written by currently living and active composers, which I don't know at all, and at least some of which I am sure deserves my attention.  I'd rather devote my efforts there instead of dealing with music I know I find flat stale and unprofitable.

[PerfectWagnerite]

This doesn't quite tell me whether you think he was a good composer.

Good point. From listening to his works I think they show solid structure, unity and development but the ideas aren't all that unique or interesting. It is as if I have heard them somewhere else even though I was listening to them the first time. I think his contemporary, one who also enjoyed quite a bit of success as a conductor, Felix Weingartner was a much better composer.

[nathanb]

Posters should note that I have no problem with ambivalence to Stockhausen's music. But, given the breadth of his oeuvre, "several hours" is hardly enough to justify the constant bashing, which is quite a bit more than ambivalence.

[Mister Sharpe]

In high school, a buddy of mine and I were fascinated by Stockhausen.  Long before I heard a note of Mendelssohn (that I was aware of - I was certain to have heard the Wedding March, of course), we were obsessed with Stockhausen's iconoclasm, which appealed to our adolescent rejection of all or most of what came before.  I realize now it was meaningless if not utter folly to destroy the icons before you'd seen (heard) them, least of all understood them.  Anyway, I can still listen to him with interest, if not always pleasure (Stimmung is a favorite), and wonder if his detractors may be making the same mistake I did in reverse.