Unpopular Opinions

Started by The Six, November 11, 2011, 10:32:51 AM

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Parsifal

I also confess to holding the unpopular opinion that Sibelius' 4th is among his least satisfying works (and always feel somewhat shamed by the commonly expressed opinion that it is his profoundest works). Sibelius is among my gods of music and his crowning achievement is the 6th symphony, I would say.

(It is a strange little world we have here where we can talk of a commonly expressed opinion about Sibelius 4. It is not as if, standing in line to pay for cotton balls at the pharmacy, I commonly hear customers arguing about the relative merits of Sibelius symphonies.)

Ken B

So, Sibelius wrote a 4th symphony?

Mahlerian

Quote from: Scarpia on June 07, 2017, 03:40:35 PM
I also confess to holding the unpopular opinion that Sibelius' 4th is among his least satisfying works (and always feel somewhat shamed by the commonly expressed opinion that it is his profoundest works). Sibelius is among my gods of music and his crowning achievement is the 6th symphony, I would say.

My opinion isn't quite the opposite, but it's close enough: the Fourth is the best of Sibelius's symphonies, with the Seventh close behind, while the Sixth is a fascinating but flawed work that doesn't quite come together.
"l do not consider my music as atonal, but rather as non-tonal. I feel the unity of all keys. Atonal music by modern composers admits of no key at all, no feeling of any definite center." - Arnold Schoenberg

amw

The Sixth is not only Sibelius's greatest symphony but also one of the bleakest, most uncompromising expressions of depression and isolation in the musical literature, like walking through an empty landscape long after the last living things have died. Listening to it makes me feel as though I've been crying for hours and will never stop.

The Fifth Symphony should not have had a second and third movement. The Seventh Symphony is overrated, apart from the last four notes. Those notes are as good as their reputation.

The end of the Fifth Symphony not only makes perfect sense but is the most satisfying possible way Sibelius could have ended the piece. This is largely because of the "swan theme" hidden in the internal voices of the 2nd, 3rd and 4th chords. (The incredible amount of space between those chords is essentially the extreme form of the progressive allargando that that "swan theme" has been undergoing. It would probably be easier to understand if the trumpets and horns were holding the notes of the swan theme during the silences, but that would not sound as good.)

Sibelius's best work overall is not any of the symphonies but rather the six Humoresques for violin and orchestra, particularly the first two. Also the two Serenades, particularly the second one.

Finlandia is actually quite good.

PerfectWagnerite

Quote from: Mahlerian on June 07, 2017, 04:02:32 PM
My opinion isn't quite the opposite, but it's close enough: the Fourth is the best of Sibelius's symphonies, with the Seventh close behind, while the Sixth is a fascinating but flawed work that doesn't quite come together.
I tend to agree.

I also like the second, if it is performed well, but there are a lot of bad recordings of the 2nd.

Karl Henning

Quote from: Scarpia on June 07, 2017, 03:40:35 PM
I also confess to holding the unpopular opinion that Sibelius' 4th is among his least satisfying works (and always feel somewhat shamed by the commonly expressed opinion that it is his profoundest works). Sibelius is among my gods of music and his crowning achievement is the 6th symphony, I would say.

85% of the time, the Sixth is my favorite Sibelius work, as well.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Karl Henning

Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on June 07, 2017, 04:38:20 PM
I also like the second, if it is performed well, but there are a lot of bad recordings of the 2nd.

It's like that with popular works:  more people conduct/perform it, than can conduct/perform it well.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Madiel

I love the 4th and the 6th, so all of you splitting into opposing camps can just stop ruining my life, please.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

North Star

I love them all too, but the 3rd deserves more attention.
"Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius

My photographs on Flickr

Parsifal

Quote from: North Star on June 08, 2017, 06:51:58 AM
I love them all too, but the 3rd deserves more attention.

Agree fully about the 3rd. Maazel's Pittsburgh recording was a revelation for me.

Ken B

Quote from: ørfeo on June 08, 2017, 06:34:11 AM
I love the 4th and the 6th, so all of you splitting into opposing camps can just stop ruining my life, please.

Sibelius was a tidy man who gave careful thought for his admirers and how to simplify their lives. Thus he carefully ranked his symphonies, ensuring that in terms of merit, 1<2<3<4<5<6<7.  Unable to extend this string he retired.

Karl Henning

Quote from: North Star on June 08, 2017, 06:51:58 AM
I love them all too, but the 3rd deserves more attention.

Aye.  ørfeo, you mustn't mistake my participation as signing on at all to the (horribly misguided 8) ) disapproval of the a minor symphony!
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

nathanb

Unpopular opinion of the day:

Humans are fucking stupid scum.

Ken B

Quote from: nathanb on June 08, 2017, 10:28:36 AM
Unpopular opinion of the day:

Humans are fucking stupid scum.
Sadly a popular opinion. Amongst wankers, poseurs, and other self-aggrandizers.

Uhor

Frantic fugue, fierce finale: feeling Fire fucking Freya.

Florestan

Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Spineur

Quote from: nathanb on June 08, 2017, 10:28:36 AM
Unpopular opinion of the day:

Humans Politicians (especially of the brit variety) are fucking stupid scum.

Karl Henning

Adam West was the best Batman of the lot.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

kishnevi

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 10, 2017, 09:26:46 AM
Adam West was the best Batman of the lot.

That may need to be moved to the Popular Opinions thread.

Jo498

UO 1: Most comic books and movies based on comic books are infantile, ridiculous and not worth the time.
UO 2: It is surprising that even among cultured adults [i.e. people who can and regularly do read books without pictures] UO 1 really seems to be an UO.
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal