Unpopular Opinions

[zamyrabyrd]

As for unpopular Beethoven opinions: I don't care all that much for several of the most famous "named" piano sonatas like Pathetique, Appassionata, Waldstein. Of course, they are very good. But so are many less famous ones and the ones mentioned are not among my favorites (the "Tempest" is a big favorite of mine, though).

On the subject of Beethoven, I cannot bear the Chorale Fantasia. Also, I feel that in some of his early and middle period piano sonatas he wrote filler for the sake of form and proportion, mainly in transitions but not necessarily interesting material.

ZB

[Jo498]

One of the main points of Beethoven's style in any of his periods is that he does use a lot of seemingly uninteresting material

[amw]

I sometimes like pointing out to people that the Arietta of Op. 111, frequently described as profound and magical, is almost exactly the same as the theme of the Diabelli Variations (just with vi substituted for V in the second half), frequently described as trite and banal. The bedrock of Beethoven's style is materials too basic to even be properly called themes; "like bread, it cannot cloy" (Rosen re one of the piano concertos)

This is not to say that his materials aren't memorable or interesting, but usually because of what he does with them.

[Jo498]

NB  Rosen wrote this about Mozart's K 503, i, famous for the banality of its material. Maybe he also used the phrase with some Beethoven pieces.

[amw]

Oh oops. I was misremembering it re Beethoven Op. 15. >.> Apropos though—that was apparently one of the Mozart concertos Beethoven loved the most and played most often, if I recall correctly.

[North Star]

Beethoven's Op 2 sonata is surprisingly good upon revisiting (compared to sonatas 6 upwards) 

If you're saying that there is only one sonata in the Op. 2, that is certainly an unpopular opinion. 

[Jo498]

This is a simple consequence of Sturgeon's Law

Not really. That "Law" is not scaleable. Because it is not true that 90% of Beethoven's music is crap.

So while I do not know the music of that TV show, it is obviously possible that it is among the 90% of some domain that is crap. But even if it is not, it could be worse than some of the "lower half" of some other domain because that latter domain is overall on such a high level.
So the claim (different from the one quoted) that the music of a certain TV show is better than the lower half of any domain is wrong (because the domain could be the works of Beethoven or Mozart etc.) By an analoguous argument it is not obvious that the music from that TV show is better than the lower half of some wider domain, say Baroque music 1650-1700 or so. It could well be but it does not have to be. The only thing is needed is that that TV show music is not all that great and that there are some periods with very good music (and not such a large spread in quality, so that the lower half is still pretty good).

[71 dB]

Not really. That "Law" is not scaleable. Because it is not true that 90% of Beethoven's music is crap.

Of course it isn't scaleable. If it where, it would contradict itself, because by infinite induction everything becomes crap:

90 % of Beethoven which isn't crap (10 % of all of it) is crap => 90 % + 90 % of 10 % ( =9 %) of Beethoven which isn't crap is crap => ... => 100 % of Beethoven is crap, but that contradicts the law itself ( + of course what we think about Beethoven).

The criteria for "crappiness" dictates how many prosent of everything is crap. The irony is that this criteria follows Sturgeon's law too: ~90 % of all people have crappy criteria for crappiness. 

[Jo498]

There is another complication with such hard and fast 80-20 type rules.
The thresholds for publication and dissemination are very different in different domains and epochs.
The threshold for 20th century science fiction (where Sturgeon's quip originated) is fairly low. A lot of stuff could be published in some pulp magazine. The threshold for 21st century fan fiction is basically zero. Literally every sick crap imaginable can be published on some website. (And some of that sick crap can even become a bestseller, like 50 shades of Grey) The threshold for some book or sheet music in the 17th century to be printed and disseminated is far higher. So it is very unlikely that standard percentages could be applied to such different domains.

[Ken B]

It's not an opinion, but ... I do not think I have ever actually heard a Grateful Dead song. I must have heard snippets, and probably something on the radio or at a party, but I have no awareness of ever having heard a GD song in its entirety. Am I the only person in America above the age of 25 who can make that claim? Just how unusual is this?

I did just listen to 5 or 6 short bits on YouTube, and I haven't missed much. But it doesn't even sound familiar at all.

[Parsifal]

If you've heard one dead song it would be "Truckin'."

[Pat B]

If you've heard one dead song it would be "Truckin'."

Or "Casey Jones." The first one I heard, and I heard it a lot, was "Touch of Grey," but that may be specific to my age group.

I never really got into them, only know the hits.

[Parsifal]

Or "Casey Jones." The first one I heard, and I heard it a lot, was "Touch of Grey," but that may be specific to my age group.

I never really got into them, only know the hits.

I forgot about "Touch of Grey." Never listened to anything by the dead on purpose, just occasional play on the old album-orientated radio stations when I used to listen in the car. I'm surprised at how conventional dead songs sound, considering the loyalty of their following. I guess their live shows were something out of the ordinary.

[Ken B]

I forgot about "Touch of Grey." Never listened to anything by the dead on purpose, just occasional play on the old album-orientated radio stations when I used to listen in the car. I'm surprised at how conventional dead songs sound, considering the loyalty of their following. I guess their live shows were something out of the ordinary.

There's a new Amazon prime series on them, which is what prompted my thought. I expect I will give it a look, and it should feature some concert excepts.

[Karl Henning]

I forgot about "Touch of Grey."

Dawn is breaking everywhere.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Karl Henning]

Or “Casey Jones.”

Come hear Uncle John's band.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Sergeant Rock]

I never really got into them, only know the hits.

The Dead only had one hit: 1987`s "Touch of Grey" reached number 9 on the Billboard Charts. "Truckin'", there second highest chart single, peaked at 64. A few other songs, already mentioned, appear occasionally on classic rock radio.

There's a new Amazon prime series on them, which is what prompted my thought. I expect I will give it a look, and it should feature some concert excepts.

There are only a few Deadheads on this forum: HIPster, me...can't think of anyone else. If you didn't experience them live, it's not likely you'll "get on the bus" at this late point.

Sarge

[Jaakko Keskinen]

Simon Boccanegra is Verdi's greatest opera.

[zamyrabyrd]

NB  Rosen wrote this about Mozart's K 503, i, famous for the banality of its material. Maybe he also used the phrase with some Beethoven pieces.

Ha, ha, I did get the phrase "filler" from "Sonata Forms" or the "Classical Style", can't remember which book...

[Pat B]

The Dead only had one hit: 1987`s "Touch of Grey" reached number 9 on the Billboard Charts. "Truckin'", there second highest chart single, peaked at 64. A few other songs, already mentioned, appear occasionally on classic rock radio.

Okay then, I only know their hit and some of the songs that got played on classic rock radio.