Unpopular Opinions

[Mahlerian]

"Professional music critics rarely possess any aptitude for mathematics.  Hence, they like to compare musical processes unintelligible to them with the equally darksome methods of mathematical thinking." - Nicolas Slonimsky

[Karl Henning]

"Professional music critics rarely possess any aptitude for mathematics.  Hence, they like to compare musical processes unintelligible to them with the equally darksome methods of mathematical thinking." - Nicolas Slonimsky

Pow!

[Jo498]

there was a contemporary review that called a Berlioz piece (do not remember which one) "sterile algebra". So there apparently is some tradition here.

[Florestan]

"Professional music critics rarely possess any aptitude for mathematics.  Hence, they like to compare musical processes unintelligible to them with the equally darksome methods of mathematical thinking." - Nicolas Slonimsky

I'd venture to say that for the rather frequent hating of maths no small responsibility should be assigned to dull textbooks and even duller teachers --- or viceversa. 

[Jo498]

Most people are indifferent to things they do not understand and don't care for.
It is different with maths is probably that it is often taught badly but an important compulsory subject in most schools, so people come to hate it because they are afraid to fail.

It can be made entertaining, though:

http://www.mathematikum.de/en.html

[Ken B]

Here is something that is very well done: helpful use of animation to explain a mathematical result which is not trivial.

I venture to say it is simple enough even for serialists and Romanians, thus providing some common ground

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaL_Cb42WyY

[Madiel]

"Professional music critics rarely possess any aptitude for mathematics.  Hence, they like to compare musical processes unintelligible to them with the equally darksome methods of mathematical thinking." - Nicolas Slonimsky

Well that sounds highly questionable, given the well established links between musical ability and mathematical aptitude. Unless, I suppose, one does not assume that music critics ever possess musical ability.

[Pat B]

Well that sounds highly questionable, given the well established links between musical ability and mathematical aptitude. Unless, I suppose, one does not assume that music critics ever possess musical ability.

Slonimsky was the author (compiler?) of Lexicon of Musical Invective. I'm guessing he understood exactly the implications of his statement, but probably with tongue at least a bit in cheek.

[71 dB]

I hate maths

Maybe Nancy can make you hate math less?

[Mahlerian]

Well that sounds highly questionable, given the well established links between musical ability and mathematical aptitude. Unless, I suppose, one does not assume that music critics ever possess musical ability.

From here, eg, the link seems to be between musical training and mathematical ability (and they're not sure of the exact reason for the link, either).  Many critics, then as now, are not professionally trained as musicians, making the assumed connection irrelevant.

Anyway, as Pat B pointed out, it's definitely written with a wink in mind.

[Madiel]

*Shrug* I didn't have any musical training before I was showing how good I was at maths.

[LKB]

I'd venture to say that for the rather frequent hating of maths no small responsibility should be assigned to dull textbooks and even duller teachers --- or viceversa. 

+1

[Karl Henning]

It's not actually about any links between math and music, but rather about using mathematical to express musical derision.

[Madiel]

It's not actually about any links between math and music, but rather about using mathematical to express musical derision.

Which makes little sense. Trying to use mathematical as a derogatory term? A rigorous Bach fugue is a thing of wonder precisely because it combines mathematics with art.

[Jo498]

The idea is probably that it the art denigrated in such a fashion is overly theoretical, difficult, overly intricate, unspontaneous, unemotional, dry etc.
Which makes it really odd that "sterile algebra" was applied to the fiery arch-romantic Berlioz of all people...
Another point is that in some cases where the person using the derogatory comparison does have some knowledge of strict structural methods behind isorhythmic motets, fugues or serial music, so the comparison is not completely false although all the implications are at least misleading.

[Florestan]

1. Beethoven's music is much better than, and must be rescued from, its posterity.

2. The German/Austrian canon is a late, nationalistic, ideological fabrication with little real background, if at all: with few exceptions, for each and every composer in its top 10 there is at least one non-German/Austrian, or one neglected German/Austrian, of equal musical quality.

[Mahlerian]

1. Beethoven's music is much better than, and must be rescued from, its posterity.

2. The German/Austrian canon is a late, nationalistic, ideological fabrication with little real background, if at all: with few exceptions, for each and every composer in its top 10 there is at least one non-German/Austrian, or one neglected German/Austrian, of equal musical quality.

Reading Taruskin much?

[Florestan]

Reading Taruskin much?

I had held these ideas long before reading Taruskin.

[Mahlerian]

I had held these ideas long before reading Taruskin.

How are they so unpopular, though?  I think that there are many composers outside of the Austro-German canon worthy of standing comparison with those inside, and it seems that most people here agree, based on their listening habits.

[Florestan]

How are they so unpopular, though?  I think that there are many composers outside of the Austro-German canon worthy of standing comparison with those inside, and it seems that most people here agree, based on their listening habits.

Most people here, perhaps, although I wouldn't bet on it --- but when it comes to popularity the world is much larger than GMG.