Author Topic: Unpopular Opinions  (Read 351359 times)

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Offline Jo498

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2880 on: August 18, 2021, 12:08:08 PM »
I love the Eroica finale, even as a teenager more than 30 years ago I found this less difficult than the long first movement and funeral march. It's a unique piece and I think it works well in practice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vZ1I122JNo
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline vers la flamme

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2881 on: August 18, 2021, 12:49:18 PM »
Didn't some Art Rock bands in the 1970s (ab)use Beethoven and Mussorgsky? They probably used a Hammond or similar contraption.

I had a similar thought; I know Rick Wakeman plays the scherzo of Brahms's 4th on some kind of electric keyboard for the album Fragile by his old band Yes, but I don't think it's a Hammond.

Offline Brian

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2882 on: August 19, 2021, 10:07:37 AM »
I stop listening to the Eroica after the funeral march most of the time. I am very much not one of the enlightened souls who understands the finale.
Welcome to GMG! Good unpopular opinion to start with.

For my part, I think the finale is a lot of fun, but I do acknowledge that after the first half of the symphony, it is weird to have a fun finale.

DavidW

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2883 on: August 19, 2021, 12:24:31 PM »
It is like a slap in the face after the funeral march to suddenly jump into the finale.  I imagine that there is a pause between movements when played live.  At least the local orchestra here pauses between movement except when they are expected to immediately jump in to the next.

Offline Brian

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2884 on: August 19, 2021, 12:45:47 PM »
It is like a slap in the face after the funeral march to suddenly jump into the finale.  I imagine that there is a pause between movements when played live.
There's even a whole scherzo between them!

Offline amw

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2885 on: August 19, 2021, 06:58:21 PM »
I stop listening to the Eroica after the funeral march most of the time. I am very much not one of the enlightened souls who understands the finale.
I only like the first and third movements of the Eroica. Not a fan of the funeral march and finale, the latter in particular always feeling four or five minutes longer than it should be.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2021, 10:51:52 PM by amw »

DavidW

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2886 on: August 20, 2021, 04:06:27 AM »
There's even a whole scherzo between them!

oops I mean into the scherzo not the finale.

Offline Symphonic Addict

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2887 on: August 29, 2021, 07:46:17 PM »
Scriabin's orchestral music is much more engaging and interesting than his solo piano music.
Give us something else; give us something new; for Heaven's sake give us something bad, so long as we feel we are alive and active and not just passive admirers of tradition!

Carl Nielsen

Offline deprofundis

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2888 on: August 30, 2021, 11:46:44 AM »
Mozart according to Hollywood movie was  on pot and hash, that why the actor whom play Mozart In brilliant movie Amadeus was laughting almost everytime  :laugh: , Mozart was a stoner?

Johann Sebastian Bach was hook on cacao, the man love Chocolate it was is drug, this would explain why he was overweight?  ???

These were my unpopular opinions?  :laugh:
« Last Edit: August 30, 2021, 11:51:12 AM by deprofundis »

Offline steve ridgway

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2889 on: August 30, 2021, 08:45:10 PM »
Johann Sebastian Bach was hook on cacao, the man love Chocolate it was is drug, this would explain why he was overweight?

Not if it was near 100% cocoa back then rather than the cheap sugary stuff. :-\

Offline Jo498

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2890 on: August 30, 2021, 10:21:50 PM »
I thought for Bach it was tobacco and coffee? Or did he poke fun at the coffee drinkers because he preferred either hot chocolate (in the 18th century, "chocolate" would always be the drink, there was no bar chocolate until the late 19th century or so) or rather wine?
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline Biffo

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2891 on: August 31, 2021, 12:52:39 AM »
Mozart according to Hollywood movie was  on pot and hash, that why the actor whom play Mozart In brilliant movie Amadeus was laughting almost everytime  :laugh: , Mozart was a stoner?

Johann Sebastian Bach was hook on cacao, the man love Chocolate it was is drug, this would explain why he was overweight?  ???

These were my unpopular opinions?  :laugh:

I presume you mean Amadeus - it is a highly entertaining movie but don't expect to learn anything factual about Mozart or Salieri from it.

DavidW

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2892 on: August 31, 2021, 01:59:21 AM »
I seem to remember from a biography that he enjoyed spending his mornings drinking coffee and playing on his little clavichord.

Also Bach was known for huge amounts of walking and not just in his youth.  Bach was not actually corpulent, that is a myth.  It is also much harder for lower or middle class people to become overweight back then anyway.  They didn't have access to abundant junk food like we do now.

Offline Jo498

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2893 on: August 31, 2021, 02:34:23 AM »
On the portrait of the elderly Bach in the 1740s he does look portly. Not as huge as Handel or Scarlatti had supposedly become but not slim either.
They didn't have abundant junk food as we do but unlike the middle ages, the 18th century did have sugary foods and Bach was solidly middle class so sweet cakes, lots of butter etc. would have probably been among the modest luxuries a Lutheran cantor could afford and indulge in.
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline Artem

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2894 on: September 03, 2021, 03:40:01 AM »
Would a person back in Bach time want to look bigger in a painting as a sign of upper class?

Offline Uhor

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2895 on: September 03, 2021, 04:10:12 AM »
Idk how popular are these two takes:

Messiaen demonstrates that knowledge has nothing to do with having a consistent taste.

Boulez better works are, with the exception of Notations for orchestra, neither the early nor the late but the middle (Le Marteau sans maître (1957) - Messagesquisse(1976))

Offline vers la flamme

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2896 on: September 03, 2021, 12:08:26 PM »
Messiaen demonstrates that knowledge has nothing to do with having a consistent taste.

Care to elaborate on this?

Offline Uhor

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2897 on: September 03, 2021, 01:25:37 PM »
Basically, and this is my perception obviously, the same guy that gave us sublime pieces like the Quartet for the end of time also gave us the vulgar Turangalila and many pieces that contain both extremes.

Offline vers la flamme

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2898 on: September 03, 2021, 03:41:19 PM »
Basically, and this is my perception obviously, the same guy that gave us sublime pieces like the Quartet for the end of time also gave us the vulgar Turangalila and many pieces that contain both extremes.

Ah, I see. It's true, he left behind a pretty diverse and varied body of work. What does this have to do with knowledge though?

Offline T. D.

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Re: Unpopular Opinions
« Reply #2899 on: September 03, 2021, 04:05:15 PM »
Ah, I see. It's true, he left behind a pretty diverse and varied body of work. What does this have to do with knowledge though?
I may be inappropriately butting in, but...

I believe that Messiaen's oeuvre, influence, roster of students, ..., are evidence of his knowledge.
OTOH, one can find quotes by Morton Feldman and Pierre Boulez, for instance, alluding to examples where O. M.'s music exhibits poor taste.

Disclosure: I agree that Quatuor pour la fin du temps is sublime, but also am not fond of Turangalîla-Symphonie (among a few other works), which does strike me as lacking taste in some sense.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2021, 04:17:06 PM by T. D. »