Unpopular Opinions

Started by The Six, November 11, 2011, 10:32:51 AM

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Karl Henning

"The Simpsons" was an utter and irredeemable waste of time and (at least a little) talent.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Superhorn

   Boyden, and his son, are carrying HIP rhetoric to absurd lengths .  They claim that  even the music of Richard Strauss, Elgar, Holst,
Vaughan Williams etc is absolutely wrong on today's instruments .  So we need HIP Richard Strauss ?  Holy cow, sheesh,
gadzooks,  and  yikes !   
   Basilcally , what gets my goat is not the use of period instruments per se,  but  the  modern instrument bashing that is so common
among HIP musicians and shills for HIP such as critic Andrew Porter .  Despite the  ubiquitousness of  period instruments today , I still
enjoy the old-fashioned politically incorrect performances  by  Karajan, Marriner,Leppard,  Klemperer,  Beecham,  and other  non HIP
conductors , as well as  other musicians, such as  Glenn Gould,  Wanda Landowska,  Itzhak Perlman, Pinchas Zukerman , et al .
    In fact, it's actually refreshing to hear those  despised   "wrong" performances   again . 
    And how  do  the Boydens know that Wagner, Brahms,  Mahler, Elgar,  etc would not have loved the way  our  great mainstream 
orchestras play their music today ? They don't, and can't .    The sheer arrogance and presumption of their claims  boggles the mind .

Lethevich

#382
I just don't understand how you can't see that the other side is just as bad. Zukerman has been a dick about HIP, Adam Fischer denounced it (before changing his mind a bit), critics like Hurwitz always go on biased rants against it, etc.

And on the HIP side we have people like Andrew Manze conducting modern orchestras (after previously largely focusing on HIP chamber music) saying it's now time to learn from HIP and see how it can be used to create a middle ground between period orchestras and modern, and we have Hogwood, etc, conducing early Romantic repertoire with modern orchestras. Hardly dogmatic?

Edit: fixed a major typo which contradicted a point.
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

chasmaniac

If I have exhausted the justifications, I have reached bedrock and my spade is turned. Then I am inclined to say: "This is simply what I do."  --Wittgenstein, PI §217

Karl Henning

Quote from: Superhorn on December 09, 2011, 02:50:03 PM
   Boyden, and his son, are carrying HIP rhetoric to absurd lengths .  They claim that  even the music of Richard Strauss, Elgar, Holst,
Vaughan Williams etc is absolutely wrong on today's instruments .  So we need HIP Richard Strauss ?  Holy cow, sheesh,
gadzooks,  and  yikes !   
   Basilcally , what gets my goat is not the use of period instruments per se,  but  the  modern instrument bashing that is so common
among HIP musicians and shills for HIP such as critic Andrew Porter.

Why you are blind to the sheer arrogance and presumption of this broad brush you're flailing, I've no idea.  I work with many musicians who work both in authentic practice, and modern style.  The violist with whom I play my The Mousetrap, for just one example.

But 'tis clear your mind is made up, and you are sturdily prepared not to be confused by facts.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

ibanezmonster


Mirror Image


Mirror Image


chasmaniac

Quote from: Mirror Image on December 09, 2011, 07:35:07 PM
Even dachschund puppies?



Crav'st thou my wisdom? Yea, even unto the seventh generation shall the dachshund pup be hideous, for all its dewy eyes and suchlike. And does the baby duck not waddle without grace? Deny it not! For I am here for the lolz!

Oh, and Handel is the third or fourth GREATEST COMPOSER OF THE WORLD, EVAH.

So there!  :D
If I have exhausted the justifications, I have reached bedrock and my spade is turned. Then I am inclined to say: "This is simply what I do."  --Wittgenstein, PI §217

ibanezmonster


Florestan

@ Superhorn

So, Gardiner, Norrington, Hogwood, Bruggen, Herreweghe, Bylsma et al. turn out to actually be... Boyden pere & fils with whom you had a bitter personal dispute...

Quote from: Superhorn on December 09, 2011, 02:50:03 PM
   Boyden, and his son, are carrying HIP rhetoric to absurd lengths .  They claim that  even the music of Richard Strauss, Elgar, Holst, Vaughan Williams etc is absolutely wrong on today's instruments . 

So what? Why should you care in such a passionate manner about what they claim?

QuoteI still enjoy the old-fashioned politically incorrect performances  by  Karajan, Marriner,Leppard,  Klemperer,  Beecham,  and other  non HIP conductors , as well as  other musicians, such as  Glenn Gould,  Wanda Landowska,  Itzhak Perlman, Pinchas Zukerman , et al .     In fact, it's actually refreshing to hear those  despised   "wrong" performances   again . 

Ok, so what's your point? That we like what we like, period? All of us here agree on that.

Quote
    And how  do  the Boydens know that Wagner, Brahms,  Mahler, Elgar,  etc would not have loved the way  our  great mainstream  orchestras play their music today ? They don't, and can't .

The question can be reversed: how do you know that Wagner, Brahms,  Mahler, Elgar,  etc would have loved the way  our  great mainstream orchestras play their music today ? You don't, and can't.

Quote
    The sheer arrogance and presumption of their claims  boggles the mind .

What boggles the mind is the extraordinary importance you attach to their utterances.

Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Karl Henning

Quote from: Greg on December 10, 2011, 04:04:34 AM
Actually, I meant human babies. 

Baby ducks can be ugly, too

Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

jowcol

Quote from: Mirror Image on December 09, 2011, 07:35:07 PM
Even dachschund puppies?



I must confess a fondess for pug puppies.  But then again, I'm an owner.



When someone says "they're so ugly, they're cute" I just want to say "You're just ugly!"
"If it sounds good, it is good."
Duke Ellington

Superhorn

    Ducks are so overrated . They're not all they're quacked up to be !










;D                                                         ;D                                                              ;D                                                       ;D

jowcol

Quote from: Superhorn on December 14, 2011, 08:02:58 AM
    Ducks are so overrated . They're not all they're quacked up to be !

;D                                                         ;D                                                              ;D                                                       ;D

CLUCK YOU!   Ooops.  I forgot my manners and resorted to fowl language.
"If it sounds good, it is good."
Duke Ellington

The Six

Stravinsky's neo-classical stuff is kind of sucky.

The Six

Sometimes I hear a piece on the radio that I think is bad Beethoven, that makes me think, "wow, ol' Ludwig really didn't pull it off with this one."

Every time it turns out to be Schubert.

ggluek

Back to the original thread:

1) If Vivaldi had never existed, there wouldn't be a single note he wrote that I would miss.

2) The note sequence B-A-C-H is an ugly sequence, and all the various Fantasies, Fantasias, Fugues, Variations, etc. based on it are correspondingly ugly pieces of music.

3) There's more genius in "Boris Godunov" than in all of Wagner put together.  (I don't really believe that, but I like "B.G." better than anything Wagner wrote. :-))

4) Mozart wrote fewer than a dozen works that are essential to a well-lived life.

I probably have more, but theswe should suffice for now.

george

eyeresist

Australian Eloquence has issued various recordings by the Vienna Philharmonic Quartet/Quintet, and I've greatly disliked them all.

snyprrr

Quote from: The Six on August 06, 2012, 08:36:34 AM
Sometimes I hear a piece on the radio that I think is bad Beethoven, that makes me think, "wow, ol' Ludwig really didn't pull it off with this one."

Every time it turns out to be Schubert.

ohh, that hurt, haha


Wow, this is the Best Thread Ever!! :-*