Unpopular Opinions

Started by The Six, November 11, 2011, 10:32:51 AM

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Mirror Image

Quote from: sanantonio on October 05, 2012, 10:57:22 AM
I don't often find myself listening to either composer's music.  However, I am well aware that I listen to Copland much more often than Ives.   Ives' music has never appealed to me and I listen to him mainly for historical education; not enjoyment.  Of course Copland's Appalachian Spring is a wonderful work that I listen to regularly but I also like some of his "out of the way" works like the Piano Concerto (which I consider a Gershwin homage) and his Clarinet Concerto (not so "out of the way") is one of my favorite works in that form. I also enjoy his film music quite a lot.

Ives is damn awesome. I love his music. Sometimes his music is just so overwhelmingly chaotic and then it comes to an eerie silence where only a few instruments are played. Works like Holidays Symphony and Symphony No. 4 never fail to give me satisfaction. Central Park in the Dark if played the Bernstein way will reveal just how demonic that work sounds. >:D The guy is just amazing and one of my first classical loves.

TheGSMoeller

Quote from: karlhenning on October 05, 2012, 10:57:37 AM
An interesting analogy.

I should disagree, though, that one necessarily will gravitate to one of the other Type.  Some of us (many, I should think) like both caviar and fish-&-chips.


Great point, Karl.
Desprez in the morning, Liszt for the afternoon, and a late night snack of Schoenberg.



Karl Henning

Quote from: sanantonio on October 05, 2012, 11:03:45 AM
If this was addressed to me ... I am almost sure I've heard it since I've heard most of Copland's music at some time or other; but I guess it didn't stick with me.  I will hunt it down.  I am aware he has a  "thorny" side (to use a modern music cliche) if the Sextet might be described thorny, but do not turn to him for this kind of thing.  Carter (among others) is my go-to guy for thorn.

Well, the Piano Variations give more of the thorny bit. There's a bracing athleticism in the Sextet, whereof there is some hint in (say) Appalachian Spring, but in the latter work (depending on how it's treated) it can go a bit mushy.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

TheGSMoeller

Quote from: sanantonio on October 05, 2012, 11:08:03 AM
I am happy for you  :D  And gladly turn over to you all my Ives listening chores.   ;D

Love this. I imagine the voice of the Dos Equis "Interesting Man" saying this with such a smooth coolness.  ;D

DavidRoss

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 05, 2012, 10:29:45 AM
What I feel may be unpopular, is my disagreement for the high praise Aaron Copland receives. I find much of the music to be quite bland behind all the flare, pop and serenity of his most well known works (Rodeo, Billy The Kid, Appalacian Spring, Symphony 3). I don't find anything challenging or fresh in Copland's music.
An opinion that's probably unpopular in general, but well entrenched in the mainstream at GMG.

Personally, I love Copland. And I suspect that if you find nothing challenging in his music, then you may have missed some of his less popular works. And if you find nothing fresh in his music, that may be because his popular successes thoroughly influenced most American music that followed.  Somewhat like Korngold who's so often dismissed as "sounding like movie music."
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

Brian

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 05, 2012, 11:09:35 AM
Liszt for the afternoon,
Funny, I just put on the Annees de Pelerinage (Chamayou).

TheGSMoeller

Quote from: sanantonio on October 05, 2012, 11:21:13 AM
I am listening to the Sextet as I type, and do hear the aspects of Appalachian SpringI think you refer to.  Inscape, Connotations and Piano Variations, yes, definitely, a thornier Copland.

Perhaps I will expand my Copland knowledge, I'll look for some of these pieces online.

RJR

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 12, 2012, 12:36:25 PM
Before getting into classical, people online would keep telling me what composers I need to listen to. Most of them said either Mozart, Beethoven, or Bach. What these people don't understand and probably still don't is that I believe people need to create their path with music. I mean sure we can take a suggestion or a recommendation for a recording, but, ultimately, we are the only ones that can decide what we want out of this music. Mozart, Bach, and Beethoven aren't composers I flock to nor have I ever even considered them apart of my musical vocabulary. Perhaps some of this comes from the fact that I didn't study music and thus I never had to learn a Bach or Beethoven piece on the piano. No, I come to music from a completely different side. I came to classical from a rock and jazz background with no training in the alleged 'classics'. When I chose to explore Bartok, Ravel, or Bruckner, people who knew I was new to classical would say that I need to be listening to better, more influential composers. After awhile, I considered these suggestions nothing more than a form of bullying. Nobody can force you to listen to anything. I think these "suggestions" did more harm than good. Now, I'm glad I did what the hell I wanted to and didn't listen to the naysayers who said I was making a mistake by purposely bypassing the Baroque and Classical Eras. I bypassed these periods of music because they didn't interest me. I like dissonance that is in your face. I like harmonic ambiguity. I like music that pounds away at your heartstrings and never lets up and music that starts off witty but suddenly becomes vulgar. This is the music of my soul. It is real, it is honest.

Have you listened to K. A. Hartmann?

Mirror Image

Quote from: RJR on November 18, 2012, 12:49:16 PM
Have you listened to K. A. Hartmann?

Yes, I'm still trying to get into him, but it shouldn't take much longer since Alban Berg is a favorite of mine. Hartmann took the whole Expressionist meltdown thing to another level entirely. :D

Superhorn

   I've never liked the music of Poulenc.  It represents French music at its frivolous worst. Humor in music is wonderful, but I can't stand cuteness in it. And Poulenc's music is annoyingly cutsie-pie.  All that  mincing preciosity, the affected  Parisian chi-chi and frou-frou .
When Poulenc tries to be serious, as in Les Dialogues du Carmelites, he's just boringly gloomy .
   I'm not anti-french at all . I admire other French composers such as Berlioz, Massenet, Saint-Saens, Dukas, Faure ,Messiaen, Roussel ,etc greatly .
But Poulenc's music is just so off-putting to me.

Karl Henning

You've mistaken this for the Kvetch About Any Composer You Dislike thread.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Opus106

Quote from: karlhenning on November 19, 2012, 06:33:34 AM
Kvetch About Any Composer You Dislike

Isn't that (one of) the point(s) of this thread? ;)
Regards,
Navneeth

Karl Henning

Quote from: Opus106 on November 19, 2012, 06:41:32 AM
Isn't that (one of) the point(s) of this thread? ;)

It presupposes that consensus is for Poulenc.

Quote from: sanantonio on November 19, 2012, 06:44:05 AM
I love Poulenc's music; he is one of my favorite composers.  Everything you find objectionable I consider his most attractive characteristics.  Which only goes to show that there is no accounting for taste - and I am uncertain which of our opinions is the more unpopular.

Precisamente.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Brian

Quote from: Superhorn on November 19, 2012, 06:25:05 AMIt represents French music at its frivolous worst. Humor in music is wonderful, but I can't stand cuteness in it. And Poulenc's music is annoyingly cutsie-pie.  All that  mincing preciosity, the affected  Parisian chi-chi and frou-frou .
Boy, you would HATE Jean Francaix!

Opus106

Regards,
Navneeth

Karl Henning

Quote from: Opus106 on November 19, 2012, 07:43:14 AM
Ah.

;D

As san anton' suggests . . . there is not, I don't suppose, a consensus w/r/t Poulenc in either direction.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Mirror Image

#796
I like Poulenc. Not everything the man wrote mind you, but he has composed some fantastic music. If anything, his chamber music should be high on most listener's favorite lists. It's definitely on mine.

Rinaldo

Yeah, yeah, keep reminding me that the Poulenc piano music set still didn't arrive, even though Amazon shipped me a new, free order after the first didn't show up..  :'(

Anyway, his concertos for keyboard instruments are ace! And I don't hear an ounce of frenchness in them.

Opus106

Quote from: Rinaldo on November 19, 2012, 09:37:20 AM
Yeah, yeah, keep reminding me that the Poulenc piano music set still didn't arrive, even though Amazon shipped me a new, free order after the first didn't show up..  :'(

Sorry to hear about that. Third time lucky, perhaps?

Speaking of his piano music, it is quite possible that I wrongly remembered what I had heard in the radio a few years ago, when I bought a box full of Scriabin's piano output earlier this year. It probably should have been Poulenc's. :-\
Regards,
Navneeth

The Six

Quote from: karlhenning on November 19, 2012, 07:57:53 AM
As san anton' suggests . . . there is not, I don't suppose, a consensus w/r/t Poulenc in either direction.





I'll allow it.