Unpopular Opinions

[Mirror Image]

Smack me upside, but despite having a TON of recordings of Beethoven's 9th, and loving that symphony beyond any other, I still get sleepy whenever I listen to the slow movement. Go ahead, laugh at me, slap my momma, put the beat down on my crazy mammajamma mofo of a bee-hind...but it just lulls me to sleep every time. Reminds me of listening to "Planet Caravan" off of Black Sabbath's Paranoid (oh how I delight in aggravating the preposterous, pretentious boobs by inserting heavy metal 'mongst the Classics!), boring song squeezed in between the good stuff for the sake of dynamics.

Only this recording at least keeps me conscious during the slow movement (and it's hard to beat this freaking recording overall to begin with!).

Bold italics meant in the most preposterously boob-inal, pretentious tone possible in an attempt bemusedly appease the most preposterously boob-inal of us out there.

I like the 9th pretty well, but the Eroica and Pastoral get my votes for the best Beethoven symphonies. They're all really good, but these are the ones that stick out in my mind long after I hear them. I'm sure this opinion I just shared is unpopular as well.

[PerfectWagnerite]

Smack me upside, but despite having a TON of recordings of Beethoven's 9th, and loving that symphony beyond any other, I still get sleepy whenever I listen to the slow movement. Go ahead, laugh at me, slap my momma, put the beat down on my crazy mammajamma mofo of a bee-hind...but it just lulls me to sleep every time. Reminds me of listening to "Planet Caravan" off of Black Sabbath's Paranoid (oh how I delight in aggravating the preposterous, pretentious boobs by inserting heavy metal 'mongst the Classics!), boring song squeezed in between the good stuff for the sake of dynamics.

Only this recording at least keeps me conscious during the slow movement (and it's hard to beat this freaking recording overall to begin with!).

Bold italics meant in the most preposterously boob-inal, pretentious tone possible in an attempt bemusedly appease the most preposterously boob-inal of us out there.

Oh my god is this the so-called Nazi 9th again ?

[AndyD.]

Oh my god is this the so-called Nazi 9th again ?

WHAT?

Go lay down.

[PerfectWagnerite]

WHAT?

Go lay down.

The 1942 Furt B9 is the one where Hitler and Friends were(?) supposedly in the audience and where some think this somehow generate an extra degree of tension in the performance. Do you hear it?

Unless what you have there is ANOTHER 1942 Furt B9, which is possible considering the man must have done at least a dozen of them.

[AndyD.]

Maybe it would help if I understood your views on the "Nazi" 9th, please. I'm honestly interested.

[PerfectWagnerite]

Maybe it would help if I understood your views on the "Nazi" 9th, please. I'm honestly interested.

I really don't have a view on the Nazi 9th? It is a decent performance, no better or no worst than most Furt recordings (gimmicky sound, spottily played, bad to average sonics, and erratic tempos). Some people dig that performance because the fact that Hitler and whichever Nazi henchmen in the audience somehow added to the tension, as if that in any way affected Furt's conducting. I am in no way suggesting you are one of those people. or maybe you don't even know the extracurriculars associated with that performance.

[AndyD.]

I really don't have a view on the Nazi 9th? It is a decent performance, no better or no worst than most Furt recordings (gimmicky sound, spottily played, bad to average sonics, and erratic tempos). Some people dig that performance because the fact that Hitler and whichever Nazi henchmen in the audience somehow added to the tension, as if that in any way affected Furt's conducting. I am in no way suggesting you are one of those people. or maybe you don't even know the extracurriculars associated with that performance.

I do, but I might be a bigger fan of Furtwangler than you seem to be, which is fine.

[Jo498]

If you fall asleep in the slow movement you might want to try a more flowing version than Furtwängler (who is super slow in this piece).

[Madiel]

If you fall asleep in the slow movement you might want to try a more flowing version than Furtwängler (who is super slow in this piece).

You seem to have missed the statement that this is the only recording that doesn't induce sleep.

[Jo498]

Right. Because it does not make sense! Actually, I don't quite see how this movement could be soporific in any case. It is long and slow but both very beautiful and rather varied.

[AndyD.]

You seem to have missed the statement that this is the only recording that doesn't induce sleep.

Thanks, orfeo.

Right. Because it does not make sense! Actually, I don't quite see how this movement could be soporific in any case. It is long and slow but both very beautiful and rather varied.

So what? That's you, and good for you. This topic is "unpopular opinions".

What you think of it has nothing to do with what I think of it, no offense but I couldn't care less. The post was about what I thought about it, as per the topic.

However, to stay on topic, you are now more than welcome to tell us your own, potentially unpopular opinion. Or whine about what I wrote.

[Karl Henning]

I don't need to watch a Star Wars movie ever again.

[AndyD.]

I don't need to watch a Star Wars movie ever again.

You know, when I was a very little boy I really liked the first two (and I mean the FIRST two). These days all those movies embarrass the hell out of me.

[Ken B]

I don't need to watch a Star Wars movie ever again.

We need a new thread: should be popular opinions.

[AndyD.]

We need a new thread: should be popular opinions.

+1

[(poco) Sforzando]

Right. Because it does not make sense! Actually, I don't quite see how this movement could be soporific in any case. It is long and slow but both very beautiful and rather varied.

Well, that's how I feel about it, but if Andy doesn't like, then Andy doesn't like. He does seem rather belligerent about it (all of us "preposterous, pretentious boobs," "or whine about what I wrote"), but it's just a little surprising to see Furtwängler singled out for praise, as he drags out the movement at about half Beethoven's metronome mark. I'll put in a word for Harnoncourt's version with the COE, one of the high points in that (unpopular opinion) vastly overrated set. Almost alone in a group of performances notable for their fussy mannerisms, Old Saint Nik treats that slow movement as a single seamless paragraph, and it's among the best I've ever heard.

[Jo498]

I should listen to Harnoncourt again. For some reason his recording of the 9th was never a favorite (my favs from his are 2-4, 7+8), but probably more due to the somewhat lightweight outer movements. I did a little comparison with a handful of recordings a few years back and found that Weingartner in the 1930s is remarkable fluid (a little under 15 min) and transparent. It continues to amaze me that some "crappy mono" recordings by the likes of Weingartner, Toscanini or Kleiber père often bring out certain voices with more clarity than highly regarded 60s-80s stereo recordings.

I actually found that except for the beginning where the melody (in half notes and quarters) can hardly be recognized at Furtwängler's half tempo even slow readings work remarkably well. One reason is that later on there are a lot of figurations that don't drag even at a very slow tempo.

But a more flowing tempo brings out one aspect of the movement that could be described as "serene serenade" better. E.g. the strange wind-dominated section m.83-98 almost oscillates between a choral setting and a wind serenade in character. And later on the figurations in 12/8 are similar to passages in the late quartet variation movements, especially op.127 and 131.

My problem with the 9th is that it is such a rich and intense piece (also long) that I rarely find the leisure to listen to it in the way it deserves. To be honest I listen to all kinds of music in ways it does not deserve (that is with far less than full attention) but for some reason I cannot do it with Beethoven's 9th.

[AndyD.]

Well, that's how I feel about it, but if Andy doesn't like, then Andy doesn't like. He does seem rather belligerent about it (all of us "preposterous, pretentious boobs," "or whine about what I wrote"), but it's just a little surprising to see Furtwängler singled out for praise, as he drags out the movement at about half Beethoven's metronome mark. I'll put in a word for Harnoncourt's version with the COE, one of the high points in that (unpopular opinion) vastly overrated set. Almost alone in a group of performances notable for their fussy mannerisms, Old Saint Nik treats that slow movement as a single seamless paragraph, and it's among the best I've ever heard.

I do apologize, I don't think of you as a preposterous, pretentious boob (though it tickles me to say it). And that part about whining was not cool. Forgive, please.

If I remember correctly, the Harnoncourt is good. My favorites are actually the 60s Karajan (from the classic set whose name escapes me at the moment) and (though some might think it strange) the Karajan dvd from whenever.  This one: http://www.allmusic.com/album/beethoven-symphony-no-9-dvd-video-mw0001421522

But I'm generally about Karajan on Beethoven, the aforementioned 60s set is a lifetime staple for me. There was another, 70s vinyl I had that was really good, but I can't recall the actual release.

[Pat B]

Right. Because it does not make sense! Actually, I don't quite see how this movement could be soporific in any case. It is long and slow but both very beautiful and rather varied.

#LullabiedByBeauty

TD: Not sure how popular/unpopular this is, but I don't see any problem with anybody recording works multiple times. (I grant, though, that Wand's Bruckner discography is out of control.)

[Karl Henning]

(I grant, though, that Wand's Bruckner discography is out of control.)

I can stop anytime . . . .