Genesis

[71 dB]

Ok, listened to some Genesis on Spotify:

"The Lamb Lies Down"
Sorry, didn't care about this.

"Supper's Ready"
Wow, this was good! The best 70's Genesis track I have heard. The first 10 minutes and the last 4 minutes great! In the middle not so great all the time, 10-14 minutes part weak. I really liked the flute and acoustic guitar. This is the "Lizard" track of Genesis. 

I think years ago I listened to the first 2 albums and then jumped to late 70's albums so I must have skipped Foxtrot.

Nicely played!

0:)

I must admit that Invisible Touch is a fine album, which is to say, a much better album than I may have been apt to give it credit for.  I may nevertheless prefer the flowing unity of Duke, and it also has personal sentiment on its side, for me.

And I see your point viz. King Crimson, which (come to think of it) I likewise prefer to Gabriel-era Genesis.  De gustibus and all that, there is nothing wrong with preferring the "hit machine" incarnation of Genesis.

Let me check out Duke again Karl (not today, my daily Genesis quota if full  ). I believe I have heard it once.

I admit I haven't been listening to pre-"Invisible Touch" -Genesis too much, but what I have heard implicates to me that the band operates at complexity level more suitable for pop hits than prog rock. The earlier Genesis sound to me brutal in a way that sounds overlap each other in a chaotic noisy manner (in order to hide the simplicity?) as if there was lack of accuracy in the playing/singing or/and composition. The "hit machine" incarnation of Genesis (nice expression!) sounds more carefully executed, more precise/planned out structurally and the music of Genesis is easily complex enough for pop hits. So, it works, for me at least.

-----

Anyone familiar with Henry Cow? I'm a bit interested to explore them, but their albums aren't that cheap... ...and Spotify has only a few tracks by them. Gentle Giant is another group I should perhaps explore...

[Mirror Image]

I may check these again, thanks. Anyway, you are hard to please man. One has to almost become you (your mirror image!) to get your acceptance. 

Anyone that disagrees with you is 'hard to please'? You compared Genesis and King Crimson, which, IMHO, isn't too smart of a comparison considering both bands strove for different musical ideals. My point was Genesis weren't a 'simple' band in comparison to King Crimson. They wrote a lot of complex music, but this is neither here nor there. Genesis were an incredibly influential band and, while I don't like the direction they went in post-Hackett, I still consider them one of the finest in their genre.

[71 dB]

Anyone that disagrees with you is 'hard to please'?

I don't mind if people disagree. I used to mind years ago, but I think I have matured in this sense. If you think Genesis is the best band ever that's your business and I don't mind. Genesis is a very popular band, so it's not even a surprise. You are the one pointing out how other people are wrong: I have the wrong Nielsen cycle, I am wrong about the simplicity of Genesis etc. Why can't you just read my opinions (or ignore them if you want) and move on?

You compared Genesis and King Crimson, which, IMHO, isn't too smart of a comparison considering both bands strove for different musical ideals. My point was Genesis weren't a 'simple' band in comparison to King Crimson. They wrote a lot of complex music, but this is neither here nor there. Genesis were an incredibly influential band and, while I don't like the direction they went in post-Hackett, I still consider them one of the finest in their genre.

I have to compare things to know what to do in life. Yes*, Genesis and King Crimson strove for different musical ideals, but they are both music we can buy and listen to, use our time and money on.

I haven't seen Genesis work on their music and I am not a musician to know all details of composition, but to my ears the music of Genesis doesn't sound very complex and that is what matters to me as a listener. I listen to simple music a lot and I enjoy it for it's "direct impact" , but in my opinion simplicity works best in commercial popular music and I prefer some complexity in prog rock. I hear such complexity in King Crimson and in some other bands such as Henry Cow. But that's me and my ears. You are entitled to disagree.

As for the influence, despite of being a lot less succesful band commercially (because of their style and level of sophistication which frankly requires some gray matter between the ears) I believe King Crimson has been very influential to musicians too.

* This world has here accidentally double meaning: "Affirmative" and "another well-known band".   

[North Star]

71 dB, you should listen to some Ferneyhough if you want complexity. 

[71 dB]

71 dB, you should listen to some Ferneyhough if you want complexity. 

Perhaps. I know the name and reputation. I'm listening to a chamber work "Flurries" as I don't know where to start. It is complex and I not sure if the complexity has a purpose or not. One needs to listen more and maybe be smarter for this music?

Each music style requires a certain "operating level" of complexity to work for me. As I said, I listen to simple music too (e.g. pop and new age). Live is richer when you switch between "smart" and "stupid" activities and at least in my case it is good for mental health.

Complexity should not be about making things deliberably difficult for listeners for the sake of being complex, but about not holding back your creativity and natural flow of music in order to force your music into some boxes.

[Mirror Image]

I don't mind if people disagree. I used to mind years ago, but I think I have matured in this sense. If you think Genesis is the best band ever that's your business and I don't mind. Genesis is a very popular band, so it's not even a surprise. You are the one pointing out how other people are wrong: I have the wrong Nielsen cycle, I am wrong about the simplicity of Genesis etc. Why can't you just read my opinions (or ignore them if you want) and move on?

I have to compare things to know what to do in life. Yes*, Genesis and King Crimson strove for different musical ideals, but they are both music we can buy and listen to, use our time and money on.

I haven't seen Genesis work on their music and I am not a musician to know all details of composition, but to my ears the music of Genesis doesn't sound very complex and that is what matters to me as a listener. I listen to simple music a lot and I enjoy it for it's "direct impact" , but in my opinion simplicity works best in commercial popular music and I prefer some complexity in prog rock. I hear such complexity in King Crimson and in some other bands such as Henry Cow. But that's me and my ears. You are entitled to disagree.

As for the influence, despite of being a lot less succesful band commercially (because of their style and level of sophistication which frankly requires some gray matter between the ears) I believe King Crimson has been very influential to musicians too.

* This world has here accidentally double meaning: "Affirmative" and "another well-known band".   

How about you actually read what I wrote about Genesis, 71 dB? I said Genesis were one of the greatest rock bands. I didn't say they were #1. That kind of claim would be ridiculous, especially since there's so many other great bands that I love and admire. What I feel like is you can dish it all day but you can't take it. Different opinions make the world go around. It shouldn't surprise you one bit that someone has the courage to tell you that they disagree with you, but I'm thinking now that I should have just nodded my head along with yours since YOU'RE the one giving crap about not agreeing with your opinion. So if there's anyone that should drop anything, it's you.

Now...back to your regularly scheduled programming.

[71 dB]

How about you actually read what I wrote about Genesis, 71 dB? I said Genesis were one of the greatest rock bands. I didn't say they were #1. That kind of claim would be ridiculous, especially since there's so many other great bands that I love and admire. What I feel like is you can dish it all day but you can't take it. Different opinions make the world go around. It shouldn't surprise you one bit that someone has the courage to tell you that they disagree with you, but I'm thinking now that I should have just nodded my head along with yours since YOU'RE the one giving crap about not agreeing with your opinion. So if there's anyone that should drop anything, it's you.

Now...back to your regularly scheduled programming.

I apologize if I have missinterpreted your messages. Again, I don't mind if we disagree.  0:)

[Mirror Image]

I wonder how Jeffrey is getting on with Genesis? Any news? Any favorite pieces? Let us know!

[bwv 1080]

Perhaps. I know the name and reputation. I'm listening to a chamber work "Flurries" as I don't know where to start. It is complex and I not sure if the complexity has a purpose or not. One needs to listen more and maybe be smarter for this music?

Each music style requires a certain "operating level" of complexity to work for me. As I said, I listen to simple music too (e.g. pop and new age). Live is richer when you switch between "smart" and "stupid" activities and at least in my case it is good for mental health.

Complexity should not be about making things deliberably difficult for listeners for the sake of being complex, but about not holding back your creativity and natural flow of music in order to force your music into some boxes.

Start by just listening and letting go of preconceptions.  The music is a series of gestures that enfold over time - just listen to them.  If you like it fine, if not go on to something else.  The techniques may be complicated and the demands on the performer extreme, but attention is the only demand on the listener

[71 dB]

Start by just listening and letting go of preconceptions.  The music is a series of gestures that enfold over time - just listen to them.  If you like it fine, if not go on to something else.  The techniques may be complicated and the demands on the performer extreme, but attention is the only demand on the listener

What I heard from from Ferneyhough, about 20-25 minutes wasn't much to my liking. I liked the complexity level, but pretty much nothing made any sense to me. Maybe complex music for idiots is my cup of tea? 

[bwv 1080]

And think about how BF could improve much of Genesis's catalog

[Karl Henning]

Was it you or was it me?

[Mirror Image]

This video is worth it's weight in gold:

https://www.youtube.com/v/RtgIbmyIvyA

[Mirror Image]

This video is worth it's weight in gold:

https://www.youtube.com/v/RtgIbmyIvyA

What's interesting about this video is that the great Bill Bruford is on drums. I believe he toured with them for six months (?) during the Trick of the Tail tour. I kind of wished Bruford had played more with them as the brought an edginess to the band that made them almost sound like Red-era King Crimson.

[Karl Henning]

Not that I agree with him, either in rankings or various remarks . . . but I found it interesting:

http://www.youtube.com/v/yFH0wJvDKx4

[Karl Henning]

Ok, listened to some Genesis on Spotify:

"The Lamb Lies Down"
Sorry, didn't care about this.

Try it again 

As for myself, this is one of those musical items on which my ears did pendulum swings over the years.  It was probably the very first Genesis I ever heard ("Back in NYC" was probably my very first Genesis song), around 1979-80, and I lapped it up then.  In the late '90s when I returned to the states, I found Lamb rather . . . annoyingly gloomy.  Now, possibly courtesy of the remaster, I love it all again.

So, yes:  Try it again