Henze's Benz

[North Star]

Stravinsky made me think of 'Undine', so I checked out Henze's Works List again. Oh sh&t, that's a lot of stuff! Now I remember

I have the 6 Symphonies & 5 SQs. Ever ytime I endeavor to add to this, I'm confronted with that massive vlob of stuff... I know you've tried to help me before, but, I dunno...

PC2?

VC2?

some ballet thingy, or minor orch. work?? He's certainly not the biggest Chamber Music Composer...

The guitar music, dude!

[snyprrr]

The guitar music, dude!

I was there once... you're right... I'm just not able to listen to guitar music to much, it just makes me want to play, which is what I'm going to do now since I heard them leave and I can craaank it up, lol

[snyprrr]

I was enjoying some of the Concertos, 'Tristan',... the 60s stuff is pretty spiky,... he does come off as "Neo Classical" in an era of Serial Bigotry,... reminds me of Rihm?...

68 Pages on Amazon, whew... ALL those Wergo discs just coming out endlessly... well, looks like he's going to be a "YT Composer" for me...

[snyprrr]

His symphonies are a favorite of mine 

But we ALL have those, lol- how does one look into more,... or does one? Like I said, the violin, cello, and piano concertos had some interest,... I mean, I've been through this before, and I though the 'Requiem' was kind of dour at the time...

Whatever else sounds like Symphony No.4? 3-5 would be the ones I like the most,  but I liked 1-2, and like 6 when I'm in the mood. 7-10 I have not yet thoroughly... throughly... checked out, but,... but,... I think I'm more interested in 1958-1974/76...

[Karl Henning]

Cross Post:

Just finished Guy Rickard's Hindemith, Hartmann and Henze (Oh, My!)

I was rather hoping that this would (in line with similar reading about this or that composer in the past) quicken more of a sympathy with Henze.  The absorbing reading about Hindemith and Hartmann I entirely counted on;  and on the whole, the intertwined, chronological narrative I found very well advised.  Perhaps the problem (for me) is simply, that Henze was determined to politicize art (a requiem to honor Che, for out loud crying);  this is, sadly, in line with a like problem in our day, the determination to favor (and support) art which is "socially relevant."

A kind of Eugenics in Art, it feels like.

As a result, and given the structure of the book, the last 50-ish pages were rather a chore.

I suppose I'll try to read it again, five years hence perhaps.  The tough break for Henze is, the book has whetted my appetite for Hindemith and Hartmann, but quite firmly put me off any short-term interest in Henze.  In fact, it rather has me feeling that the Henze in my library at present, is probably as much as I shall ever need.

[The new erato]

I wouldn't mind a Requiem for Donald Trump, myself.

[Karl Henning]

A concertato on "Happy Days Are Here Again."

[Cato]

Cross Post:

Just finished Guy Rickard's Hindemith, Hartmann and Henze (Oh, My!)

I was rather hoping that this would (in line with similar reading about this or that composer in the past) quicken more of a sympathy with Henze....  Perhaps the problem (for me) is simply, that Henze was determined to politicize art (a requiem to honor Che, for out loud crying);  this is, sadly, in line with a like problem in our day, the determination to favor (and support) art which is "socially relevant."

In fact, it rather has me feeling that the Henze in my library at present, is probably as much as I shall ever need.

I still recall seeing a DGG album cover from the 1960's - perhaps of a set of the first five symphonies? - with Henze looking very proletarian in a rough wrinkled work shirt as he conducted an orchestra.

I found it rather hypocritical for him to leave West Germany and establish himself in Italy, rather than for East Germany or Soviet Russia itself, if Communism was such a wonderful system for people to live under!

Writer Tom Wolfe coined the phrase "radical chic" to describe affluent pro-Communist types, who tragically just cannot tear themselves away from their Italian villas or Manhattan penthouses for a communal farm outside of Chelyabinsk.

Anyway, I recall listening and trying to find something of interest in those symphonies, and gave Der Junge Lord a chance, but ended up just shrugging.  Hartmann and Hindemith were the superior composers.

In the late 1980's and 1990's I returned to Henze, because I thought my much older ears might react differently...but no.

[bwv 1080]

If I can still listen to Feldman the rapist, then I can forgive Henze's political naivete.  His work is hit or miss for me, but when it hits it does so much harder than Hartmann or Hindemith

[Karl Henning]

If I can still listen to Feldman the rapist [...]

"That escalated quickly."

[Cato]

In my archives here at school, I just found the Henze set of symphonies I-VI on DGG: I will give them another chance.

I had forgotten that the Sixth Symphony is a piece of "radical chic" with North Vietnamese ditties palling around with Cuban influences.

From the notes: (Henze wanted to use the) ..."experiences of a bourgeois who had been writing music to the ruling class for 20 years to compose against the bourgeosie...I wanted affirmation, direct avowal of revolution."

First played in Cuba before "...an audience mainly of soldiers of the Revolutionary Army, sons of workers and students of the University of Havana."

A comma after "workers" is not where it should be!       So was it an entirely male audience?

[Mahlerian]

I found it rather hypocritical for him to leave West Germany and establish himself in Italy, rather than for East Germany or Soviet Russia itself, if Communism was such a wonderful system for people to live under!

Hanns Eisler did exactly that, and lived out the rest of his days depressed in East Germany.

Shame about his attempts to be more accessible, though, as Eisler had a good amount of talent, and what he did with it was often unappealing for both the masses and the specialists.

[Cato]

From the "What Are you Listening To?" topic:

I gave the Henze Symphony #6 another chance.

It has a great amount of hin und her.  Snippets of it might be useful for the soundtrack of a Transformers movie.    In general, I was bored.  c. 25 minutes of whooping, whooshing, clicking, popping, blipping, blooping, and other experimentalist cliches from the 1950's.  Beim besten Willen I could find nothing coherent about it, except perhaps as a symbol of the chaos of "revolution."  Supposedly the symphony has a North Vietnamese song in it somewhere, and "Cuban rhythms," but these are basically submerged in the chaos and, as a result, become unimportant.  An electric guitar has a few blips and bloops here and there, and a banjo goes plink plunk now and then.  I suppose they were thrown into the maelstrom because it was 1969. 

The description of it on Wikipedia gives you an impression that you might hear something a la Aaron Copland, but...no, you won't!

See:

https://www.youtube.com/v/w3nrruYvcpQ&list=PLlaJDxtt_sFPGsK0aiS2BaWCB2ymEjOjR

[Karl Henning]

From the "What Are you Listening To?" topic:

I gave the Henze Symphony #6 another chance.

It has a great amount of hin und her.  Snippets of it might be useful for the soundtrack of a Transformers movie.    In general, I was bored.  c. 25 minutes of whooping, whooshing, clicking, popping, blipping, blooping, and other experimentalist cliches from the 1950's.  Beim besten Willen I could find nothing coherent about it, except perhaps as a symbol of the chaos of "revolution."  Supposedly the symphony has a North Vietnamese song in it somewhere, and "Cuban rhythms," but these are basically submerged in the chaos and, as a result, become unimportant.  An electric guitar has a few blips and bloops here and there, and a banjo goes plink plunk now and then.  I suppose they were thrown into the maelstrom because it was 1969. 

The description of it on Wikipedia gives you an impression that you might hear something a la Aaron Copland, but...no, you won't!

See:

https://www.youtube.com/v/w3nrruYvcpQ&list=PLlaJDxtt_sFPGsK0aiS2BaWCB2ymEjOjR

Interesting.  It's a while since I've heard it (if I've heard it), so take this as abstract response to the present post . . .

"The description of it on Wikipedia gives you an impression that you might hear something a la Aaron Copland, but..." . . . I can imagine it! Just like El salon México! Nnnyeh, I don't think so.

By now, "bleep bloop" has about established itself as a derisive phrase, and while there is some bleep-music which probably all of us here do enjoy, the challenge I should find as a composer is, how to write "bleep bloop" so that the result is specific, distinct.  Webern, of course, is the iconic success story there.  Carter, equally iconic and successful.  The question is of exactly the same type applying to music of what style soever:  how do I make the result coherent, and how do I make it something which belongs to me?

Now, the Henze Sixth may be a great piece, or it may not.  (Again, say I've not heard it: therefore I have no opinion.)  But something like "It uses a Vietnamese song and Cuban rhythms" may read great as a program note:  it means nothing as to whether the piece is a musical success.  (In just this way, a big-name US composer's program notes often include reproductions of spiffy pre-compositional grids in four or five colors.  A great program note, and great music, are two distinct questions.)

[Karl Henning]

. . . Webern, of course, is the iconic success story there.  Carter, equally iconic and successful.

And Le marteau, bien sûr.

[Cato]

By now, "bleep bloop" has about established itself as a derisive phrase, and while there is some bleep-music which probably all of us here do enjoy, the challenge I should find as a composer is, how to write "bleep bloop" so that the result is specific, distinct.  Webern, of course, is the iconic success story there.  Carter, equally iconic and successful.  The question is of exactly the same type applying to music of what style soever:  how do I make the result coherent, and how do I make it something which belongs to me?

Precisely!  And my ears were not hearing Henze answering that question with much success.  I am sure others somewhere might think that he did, but...

The earlier 5 symphonies are next: I will listen to them in reverse order. 0:)

[North Star]

https://www.youtube.com/v/s1SAYYYqeQo

https://www.youtube.com/v/OX-wLIreYjE

[snyprrr]

wow, this Thread has taken a turn!!

What up with Feldman and rape?

I still like the DG Symphonies... but, yea, Henze may be a snooty paedo hanging around playgrounds,... I dunno...

oh, the Elite

Didn't Gesualdo kill somebody?

[Cato]

From the "What Are You Listening To?" topic:

Hans Werner Henze Symphony #5.



A better work than the Sixth Symphony, which I commented upon a few days ago here and in the Henze topic.  Episodic, with hints of Berg and even Prokofiev's Second Symphony (the latter I suspect are coincidental), and some nice moments, but sounding like too many other 15-20 minute "Wonder Symphonies" of the late 1940's-1950's.

Certainly there is more of interest here in the Fifth than in the Sixth Symphony, but these few interesting sections are for me, at least, barely above the level of "mildly."  The slow movement is perhaps the one where Henze shows some originality.  I will confess to thinking that - again - parts of the work would be fine for a movie score, e.g.  a Mike Hammer-private detective type sneaking down dark alleys and coming across horrific crimes.

[cilgwyn]

A very amusing thread title! Henze baked beans? Haven't bought them for years. Must buy some!!