The GMG Top 100 of the 20th Century

[madaboutmahler]

I also wanted to ask why all this rage to include Mahler in a twentieth century list? Chronologically, some of his music makes it, sure. But so do some pieces by Dvorak and Saint-Saens. Does anyone consider them to be twentieth century music? Mahler's music is very enjoyable. I enjoy it, too. But I wouldn't put him in the twentieth century musically any more than I'd put Dvorak there (and his Rusalka is full of crashing dissonances, which is what some people consider the prime consideration for inclusion!! ).

Mahler can be a very 'forward looking' composer, it's not just because these works were written after 1900 that they can be called 20th century works,  especially in works such as the symphonies 6-9, which in some places sound more like the 20th century than anything before. Oh, and please do vote for Dvorak Rusalka if you want to, I seem to remember you using this as an example rather early on in the thread as well...

[some guy]

And you keep missing that I would not include Dvorak, Rusalka or Armida either one.

[Lisztianwagner]

Bernstein Symphonic Dances from West Side Story

Rather curious

I know this is a personal list, but I'm a little surprised by that choice anyway, especially if I think about all the other masterpieces written in the 20th century (Holst, Respighi, Schoenberg etc.)

[Mirror Image]

Rather curious

I know this is a personal list, but I'm a little surprised by that choice anyway, especially if I think about all the other masterpieces written in the 20th century (Holst, Respighi, Schoenberg etc.)

Bernstein was completely in his element when writing classically infused jazz compositions. I'm not sure if this is even a fair description of the music, but it is certainly a fun, thrilling display of fireworks. I don't think Bernstein is ever given enough credit for his own compositions. He's written, in my opinion, some fine works like, for example, his Jeremiah symphony and The Age Of Anxiety, but it's obvious West Side Story is his one of his most successful works and I'm all the more merrier for that. I love the Candide Overture and On The Waterfront as well. Wonderful music.

[Lisztianwagner]

Bernstein was completely in his element when writing classically infused jazz compositions. I'm not sure if this is even a fair description of the music, but it is certainly a fun, thrilling display of fireworks. I don't think Bernstein is ever given enough credit for his own compositions. He's written, in my opinion, some fine works like, for example, his Jeremiah symphony and The Age Of Anxiety, but it's obvious West Side Story is his one of his most successful works and I'm all the more merrier for that. I love the Candide Overture and On The Waterfront as well. Wonderful music.

Sure; I don't question Bernstein, who was certainly a genius and wrote great music, not to mention his conducting style, so beautiful! Doubtless, he would deserve to be included in the list.
But I think there are many other compositions which are better than Bernstein's ones.......Holst's The Planets, Respighi's Roman Trilogy, Rach's Piano Concerto No.3, Strauss' Salome, Shostakovich Symphonies......that's why I was a little surprised.

Obviously that's only an opinion of mine

[Mirror Image]

Sure; I don't question Bernstein, who was certainly a genius and wrote great music, not to mention his conducting style, so beautiful! Doubtless, he would deserve to be include in the list.
But I think there are many other compositions which are better than Bernstein's ones.......Holst's The Planets, Respighi's Roman Trilogy, Rach's Piano Concerto No.3, Strauss' Salome, Shostakovich Symphonies......that's why I was a little surprised.

Obviously that's only an opinion of mine

I agree, Ilaria. I wouldn't put Bernstein's Symphonic Dances from "West Side Story" in the same category as Schoenberg's Verklarte Nacht or Bartok's The Miraculous Mandarin, but obviously Daniel feels pretty adamant about this choice or he wouldn't have picked it. It's a fun work, but that's all it is. It's not profound or even a masterpiece.

[madaboutmahler]

Rather curious

I know this is a personal list, but I'm a little surprised by that choice anyway, especially if I think about all the other masterpieces written in the 20th century (Holst, Respighi, Schoenberg etc.)

I simply adore this work! I can not really explain much further! Of course there are many great pieces that I love so much that I missed out of my list, but this Bernstein piece I just couldn't leave it, so irresistable and thrilling. I love the modern more jazzish/slightly popular element to it as well.

Bernstein was completely in his element when writing classically infused jazz compositions. I'm not sure if this is even a fair description of the music, but it is certainly a fun, thrilling display of fireworks. I don't think Bernstein is ever given enough credit for his own compositions. He's written, in my opinion, some fine works like, for example, his Jeremiah symphony and The Age Of Anxiety, but it's obvious West Side Story is his one of his most successful works and I'm all the more merrier for that. I love the Candide Overture and On The Waterfront as well. Wonderful music.

I agree John, I certainly think Bernstein should be given more credit for his compositions, and not just his brilliant conducting. I love all the works you mention there.

I agree, Ilaria. I wouldn't put Bernstein's Symphonic Dances from "West Side Story" in the same category as Schoenberg's Verklarte Nacht or Bartok's The Miraculous Mandarin, but obviously Daniel feels pretty adamant about this choice or he wouldn't have picked it. It's a fun work, but that's all it is. It's not profound or even a masterpiece.

Well, let's be honest. How could you compare those works?! So incredibly different to eachother.

I must tell you though that Verklarte Nacht is in fact a 19th century piece.... it was written in 1899. If it had been written a year later, then it would be in my list as well. Such an amazing piece.
Please do change your vote anyone who included a vote for Verklarte Nacht, I've seen a few.... should of said so earlier I suppose.

[Karl Henning]

I must tell you though that Verklarte Nacht is in fact a 19th century piece.... it was written in 1899.

Let's go to the videotape . . . .

But . . . this sextet was written in 1899, solidly a 19^th-c. piece.

[Lisztianwagner]

I must tell you though that Verklarte Nacht is in fact a 19th century piece.... it was written in 1899. If it had been written a year later, then it would be in my list as well. Such an amazing piece.
Please do change your vote anyone who included a vote for Verklarte Nacht, I've seen a few.... should of said so earlier I suppose.

All right........but couldn't we make an exception to the rule as Verklärte Nacht was premiered in 1902?

[Karl Henning]

All right........but couldn't we make an exception to the rule as Verklärte Nacht was premiered in 1902?

Well, then the Schumann Violin Concerto could be a 20^th-century work! ; )

[Lisztianwagner]

Well, then the Schumann Violin Concerto could be a 20^th-century work! ; )

[madaboutmahler]

Let's go to the videotape . . . .

Sorry, Karl! Forgot you had already mentioned it!

All right........but couldn't we make an exception to the rule as Verklärte Nacht was premiered in 1902?

But you can now have another vote! Surely there was another piece you desperately wanted to include?

[Lisztianwagner]

But you can now have another vote! Surely there was another piece you desperately wanted to include?

Of course, no problem I've already changed my vote, always for Schoenberg.

[TheGSMoeller]

I have a feeling Vivaldi had some unpublished works that premiered in the 20th Century. 

[madaboutmahler]

Of course, no problem I've already changed my vote, always for Schoenberg.

Interesting choice....

I have a feeling Vivaldi had some unpublished works that premiered in the 20th Century. 

[Mirror Image]

I simply adore this work! I can not really explain much further! Of course there are many great pieces that I love so much that I missed out of my list, but this Bernstein piece I just couldn't leave it, so irresistable and thrilling. I love the modern more jazzish/slightly popular element to it as well. I agree John, I certainly think Bernstein should be given more credit for his compositions, and not just his brilliant conducting. I love all the works you mention there.

Well, let's be honest. How could you compare those works?! So incredibly different to eachother.

I must tell you though that Verklarte Nacht is in fact a 19th century piece.... it was written in 1899. If it had been written a year later, then it would be in my list as well. Such an amazing piece.
Please do change your vote anyone who included a vote for Verklarte Nacht, I've seen a few.... should of said so earlier I suppose.

Verklarte Nacht may have been written in 1899, but the version I chose, the one arranged for string orchestra, wasn't arranged until 1943. So, in hindsight, you are correct it's technically a 19th Century work, but I think it's idiom and it's harmonic language are without a doubt in my mind a product of the early 20th Century. Plus I mean it was 1899, so I think we can make a special exception, right? But if we cannot, then I choose Pelleas und Melissande. I had to have something by Schoenberg in my list because I think his music was an important influence on his contemporaries and music history in general.

As far as making a comparison between Bernstein and Bartok, well you really can't, but I can easily choose Bartok over Bernstein's own music any day of the week for the simple fact that Bartok's music means more to me and he's one of my absolute favorite composers. It's really that simple. Bernstein's music is fun, but that's all it is for me. If I want instant gratification without much effort, then Bernstein can fill that void rather quickly.

[mc ukrneal]

Sure; I don't question Bernstein, who was certainly a genius and wrote great music, not to mention his conducting style, so beautiful! Doubtless, he would deserve to be included in the list.
But I think there are many other compositions which are better than Bernstein's ones.......Holst's The Planets, Respighi's Roman Trilogy, Rach's Piano Concerto No.3, Strauss' Salome, Shostakovich Symphonies......that's why I was a little surprised.

Obviously that's only an opinion of mine

Well, I had West Side Story on my list and no Shostakovich symphony and the reason is fairly simple for me. I connect with West Side Story, but I don't with Shostakovich's symphonies. So since I took 'top 20' to mean 'my favorite 20' a number of factors that might have pushed up Shostakovich's symphonies (for example) were not considered. But I do connect with other Shostakovich pieces and thus he was not excluded from my list either.

[some guy]

I really think it would be a lot easier to simply redefine the 19th century as part of the 20th.

That way y'all could load up the "Top 100" so that hardly any music written since 1900 would have to be included; but it would be full of all sorts of things from Beethoven to Debussy.

I mean, be fair, that's what y'all wanna do anyway, right? (My favorite twentieth century piece is Schumann's Kinderscenen. I mean Weber's Der Freischütz.) )

[madaboutmahler]

Verklarte Nacht may have been written in 1899, but the version I chose, the one arranged for string orchestra, wasn't arranged until 1943. So, in hindsight, you are correct it's technically a 19th Century work, but I think it's idiom and it's harmonic language are without a doubt in my mind a product of the early 20th Century. Plus I mean it was 1899, so I think we can make a special exception, right? But if we cannot, then I choose Pelleas und Melissande. I had to have something by Schoenberg in my list because I think his music was an important influence on his contemporaries and music history in general.

I suppose.... and I agree, it certainly sounds like a more 20th century work. And the string orchestra adaption is my favourite as well. Pelleas und Melisande is certainly a great work, I'll take that as your vote, now that other people have changed their Schoenberg vote anyway... I am rather surprised that you have chosen the work of his earlier period though John, I thought pieces such as '5 Pieces for Orchestra' and the concerti would be favourites of yours!

As far as making a comparison between Bernstein and Bartok, well you really can't, but I can easily choose Bartok over Bernstein's own music any day of the week for the simple fact that Bartok's music means more to me and he's one of my absolute favorite composers. It's really that simple. Bernstein's music is fun, but that's all it is for me. If I want instant gratification without much effort, then Bernstein can fill that void rather quickly.

Exactly. And, I knew you would choose Bartok.

I really think it would be a lot easier to simply redefine the 19th century as part of the 20th.

That way y'all could load up the "Top 100" so that hardly any music written since 1900 would have to be included; but it would be full of all sorts of things from Beethoven to Debussy.

I mean, be fair, that's what y'all wanna do anyway, right? (My favorite twentieth century piece is Schumann's Kinderscenen. I mean Weber's Der Freischütz.) )

Don't be silly... everyone here is either choosing works written in the 20th century, or are at least mentioning works that sound 20th century...

Both halves of the 20th century were extremely important, don't forget that!

[Mirror Image]

I suppose.... and I agree, it certainly sounds like a more 20th century work. And the string orchestra adaption is my favourite as well. Pelleas und Melisande is certainly a great work, I'll take that as your vote, now that other people have changed their Schoenberg vote anyway... I am rather surprised that you have chosen the work of his earlier period though John, I thought pieces such as '5 Pieces for Orchestra' and the concerti would be favourites of yours!

What I enjoy about Schoenberg's Pelleas und Melisande, besides my fascination with it harmonically and melodically, is how we can start to hear Schoenberg break away from tonality. This work pushes tonality to almost a complete meltdown. It just oozes angst and raw emotion. Truly an Expressionist masterpiece I think. Yes, I do love Five Pieces for Orchestra and the Piano Concerto, but Pelleas und Melisande really gets me fired up.