Author Topic: To Be Proud or Embarrassed?  (Read 6650 times)

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Offline drogulus

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Re: To Be Proud or Embarrassed?
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2011, 07:29:47 AM »
Dude!  Quine was one of my heroes!  He had no fear about calling Derrida a fraud!

He also argued for the reality of mathematical concepts.

     Super! Then this is an angel.

     

     To be slightly more serious, I don't buy the notion that our system of concepts derived from what we deem the real world are now to be understood as real and a priori, particularly since their validity as generalizations is often merely approximate. How is this realism different from idealism? I think even "eternal" concepts which appear foundational are nevertheless derived, no matter how the universe seems to instantiate them (which, I would argue, it doesn't). We still get our concepts from observation, though we weave them into our observations so they can seem to be observations themselves rather than tools. Quine said at some point that "real" is a scientific term, and its meaning is what science says. However, I understand there's an intermediate position that says abstractions can be real according to how they describe real things, like for example "France", "center of gravity", "gods of Homer" etc.

     Supposing that an equation could describe everything you experience in the world, could you live in the equation?  Can you ride the concept of a horse, if it's a really, really good concept? I think not, and that's why we're justified in saying concepts aren't real.
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Offline Opus106

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Re: To Be Proud or Embarrassed?
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2011, 07:40:15 AM »
To be slightly more serious, I don't buy the notion that our system of concepts derived from what we deem the real world are now to be understood as real and a priori, particularly since their validity as generalizations is often merely approximate.

Cato said mathematical concepts. How do you say mathematical generalisations are merely approximate? They are more often than not exact.

Disclaimer: I'm simply going by what Cato said about this Quine person said. I'm just about read his Wiki page about him.
Regards,
Navneeth

Offline drogulus

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Re: To Be Proud or Embarrassed?
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2011, 08:14:05 AM »
Cato said mathematical concepts. How do you say mathematical generalisations are merely approximate? They are more often than not exact.

Disclaimer: I'm simply going by what Cato said about this Quine person said. I'm just about read his Wiki page about him.

     I don't accept the distinction except in the limited sense of concepts suggested by real entities. As for the exactness of mathematical concepts, they are exact, while the world is not.
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Offline drogulus

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Re: To Be Proud or Embarrassed?
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2011, 08:39:18 AM »

     Even if the world is discrete (like space/time "pixels"), I find it hard to imagine an "exact world". What could that be? A concept, I guess.

     Opus106, I haven't studied math or logic, so I know Quine from his thought applied to general questions. I recommend his book The Web of Belief just to get the basics. In my case the basics are about as far as I can go.
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Offline Opus106

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Re: To Be Proud or Embarrassed?
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2011, 10:26:04 AM »
I recommend his book The Web of Belief just to get the basics.

Thanks. :)
Regards,
Navneeth

Offline Florestan

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Re: To Be Proud or Embarrassed?
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2011, 06:27:52 AM »
I haven't studied math or logic

It shows - especially in the fact that you had to produce your usual epistemological essay (yes, it's one and the same ever since you started posting it on GMG) in this thread, of all places.  ;D

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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: To Be Proud or Embarrassed?
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2011, 06:29:15 AM »
(* chortle some more *)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline jowcol

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Re: To Be Proud or Embarrassed?
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2011, 09:52:37 AM »
"What's round on the ends, high in the middle?"

Now there's something to be proud of.

...And nice boobs.

Hmmm.  For some reason, based on the this thread and the preceeding, I can't get Devo's song Uncontrollable Urge our of my head.
"If it sounds good, it is good."
Duke Ellington

Offline Coopmv

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Re: To Be Proud or Embarrassed?
« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2011, 02:27:17 PM »
Okay, here I am in Ohio, birthplace of Thomas Edison, Orville Wright, Charles Kettering, Philip Johnson, and other inventors and builders of marvelous stuff.

But Ohio is also the birthplace of this:



and this:




and even this:




Yes, Victoria's Secret is headquartered here in central Ohio, in Columbus, and is the company that turns women into bizarre peacocks pretending to be angels,  :o    which from a gender point of view is highly disturbing, since by definition angels have no gender and peacocks are, well, you know!   0:)

So...what do you think?  Should I be proud or embarrassed? 

Or just go with the flow?   ;D

Take the good with the not so good and there is nothing to be embarrassed about ...