Anyone else into mindful listening or other forms of meditation using music?

[nesf]

Just curious, I found a thread but it's 4 years old and didn't want to bump it. I'm experimenting with different kinds of classical at the moment for mindfulness mediation. I've found Mozart's Requiem very good, some of Bruckner seems to work as well but not 100% sure yet. Mindful listening is probably something a lot of you do without realising it, i.e. actively listening instead of passively listening and focusing completely on the sensory experience and not letting your mind do its normal tumult of thought on the future and past. It's big in psychology at the moment as an adjunct treatment for a bunch of mental illnesses and suffering from depression (amongst other things) I've been giving it a good try the past 3 or 4 months. If I can combine it with listening to good music, all the better!

I've found that more complex music is better for holding my attention and constantly surprising me. Anyone else find the opposite works best for them?

[Ataraxia]

Why do you use music to meditate may I ask?

[nesf]

Well, for mindfulness the idea is to put your mind into a state focused completely on the present experience (from my understanding). You can do this with any activity, walking, washing the dishes, whatever. I like music so, it's a good match between something I can enjoy and something that's suitable for total focus upon.

For other kinds of meditation something like classical might even be a hindrance. But I'm not using those methods so it's not an issue for me.

[Ataraxia]

Well, for mindfulness the idea is to put your mind into a state focused completely on the present experience (from my understanding). You can do this with any activity, walking, washing the dishes, whatever. I like music so, it's a good match between something I can enjoy and something that's suitable for total focus upon.

For other kinds of meditation something like classical might even be a hindrance. But I'm not using those methods so it's not an issue for me.

Thank you for your reply. Good luck with your meditation!

[nesf]

Some details here actually: http://ianellis-jones.blogspot.com/2011/01/listening-to-music-mindfully.html

[jowcol]

I like improvised music for meditation.  Modal Jazz (John Coltrane) and Hindustani classical are good. 

Of the "classical" , for some reason Bach and the minimalists work best for me.  Your milage may vary.

[PaulSC]

I think giving music your full attention, and following it actively instead of receiving it passively, is a good strategy for listening. But somehow it bothers me to think of this as "using" the music for a purpose such as meditation. I'd rather think of music listening as an end in itself, rather than a means to some other end.

[Ataraxia]

I think giving music your full attention, and following it actively instead of receiving it passively, is a good strategy for listening. But somehow it bothers me to think of this as "using" the music for a purpose such as meditation. I'd rather think of music listening as an end in itself, rather than a means to some other end.

If your mind doesn't wander, you're probably meditating.

[nesf]

I think giving music your full attention, and following it actively instead of receiving it passively, is a good strategy for listening. But somehow it bothers me to think of this as "using" the music for a purpose such as meditation. I'd rather think of music listening as an end in itself, rather than a means to some other end.

Um, well listening actively and focusing on the music is meditating (mindfulness style Buddhism, not Zen Buddhism). More a case of, if you're going to focus completely on the present it might as well be something you enjoy focusing on. 

That, and you can have your cake and eat it, i.e. have listening to music as an end and meditating as an end.

[Holden]

I use music to aid in my thinking processes. For example, if I need to write a document of some sort, playing music really helps me in forming my words into meaningful prose. Some music works better than others and baroque is particularly good in this regard.

It's big in psychology at the moment as an adjunct treatment for a bunch of mental illnesses and suffering from depression (amongst other things)

When I went through my one serious period of clinical depression I refused to take medication for it as I didn't want any of that stuff, with its other side effects, in my system. I don't know why but I turned to the music of J S Bach as a cure and amazingly, it worked! The only music I listened to was Bach - no Chopin or LvB or anything else. The WTC became almost daily listening. Maybe someone else here can explain why this was effective.

[nesf]

When I went through my one serious period of clinical depression I refused to take medication for it as I didn't want any of that stuff, with its other side effects, in my system. I don't know why but I turned to the music of J S Bach as a cure and amazingly, it worked! The only music I listened to was Bach - no Chopin or LvB or anything else. The WTC became almost daily listening. Maybe someone else here can explain why this was effective.

Assuming it was listening actively that helped you: The way mindfulness works in depression is that it breaks the cycle of negative thinking that normally spirals out of control when you're depressed. It's getting trapped in your head and all the negative and delusional thoughts that the depression produces that can make depression much more unpleasant to go through. Mindfulness takes you out of your head and keeps you in the present giving you a break from all the crap in your head. Focused listening to Bach would be as good for doing this as any focused breathing exercise. The evidence I've seen for mindfulness in depression is that people who meditate regularly (in whatever way) get depressed less often, need less medication and require fewer appointments with their psychiatrist per year. They were really pushing this on us last time I was in psychiatric hospital as a drug free, risk free way to make life a bit more liveable. Usually as a compliment to other therapies like CBT or medication. It can't replace either talk therapy or medication completely though. It just helps, and when you're depressed if you're able to meditate it can bring some relief to your day and stop a bad day turning into a terrible one.


You can see this is people without mental illness who use music to take their mind off something that's bothering them or to escape from the stress of the world etc. It's the same principle, it's just more acute a problem for someone who is depressed. You can see this again with people who get some relief from depression at work but who deteriorate badly when they're back home and left to their own devices (i.e. when they have a chance to get lost in their own thinking again).

[Josquin des Prez]

What does meditating to music means? I always found myself unable to move my attention away from the music, unless its something i don't like, in which case i simply don't listen to it. The idea of listening to music while doing something else has always been strange to me. I just find it irritating after a while and simply turn it off.

The best place for meditation is nature, the shower and the toilet bowl.

[nesf]

What does meditating to music means? I always found myself unable to move my attention away from the music, unless its something i don't like, in which case i simply don't listen to it. The idea of listening to music while doing something else has always been strange to me. I just find it irritating after a while and simply turn it off.

The best place of meditation is nature, the shower and the toilet bowl.

This form of meditation is all about just focusing on your present action and not letting your mind wander. So in this case it's about focusing intently on the music, listening actively and keeping bringing your mind back when it wanders. To take great notice of the experience of listening, the feeling of the bass notes, the way a note fades slowly and so on. As I said originally, I imagine a lot of you are doing this anyway when you listen to music! Other forms of meditation are very different.

[jowcol]

What does meditating to music means? I always found myself unable to move my attention away from the music, unless its something i don't like, in which case i simply don't listen to it. The idea of listening to music while doing something else has always been strange to me. I just find it irritating after a while and simply turn it off.

I read a book on psychological aspects of music that was pretty forgettable, except for one point that he made.  That, while some people would have very clear emotional reactions to music, some would have an "immersive" reaction in which they'd be basically drowning in it, and get more a a timeless feel where they would not be aware of their normal surroundings, etc. He didn't put much stock in it- but I thought that was the most valid point-- as I have that reaction a lot.

The best place for meditation is nature, the shower and the toilet bowl.

I couldn't have said it better, except that nature may be overrated.

[mahler10th]

Yes nesf, very interesting.  I do this quite often.  Avro Part is very useful for this, as are things like the Tallis variations (V Williams) and by all the Gods, Bach!  Bach is very complex!       Bach is more complex than the Classical period that came after him, and is quite brilliant for honing mindfulness.  Interesting that as an aetheist I find the best music to meditate by is music written for, or inspired by, religion.  Like Professor Dawkins said, 'I am a most religious non-believer.'  But I guess thats for another thread...
I am with you on this, beliefs or no beliefs.  Music can edify the spirit, and some of it we can use to do so.   0:)

[nesf]

Yeah, same here, committed agnostic (invisible tea pot agnostic) and no time for healing crystals and all that stuff. I found this book rather interesting: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Confession-Buddhist-Atheist-Stephen-Batchelor/dp/0385527071/ref=pd_cp_b_2 (it's about secular Buddhism for the non-believers)

And yeah, sacred music is great, believer or no.

[jowcol]

Yeah, same here, committed agnostic (invisible tea pot agnostic) and no time for healing crystals and all that stuff. I found this book rather interesting: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Confession-Buddhist-Atheist-Stephen-Batchelor/dp/0385527071/ref=pd_cp_b_2 (it's about secular Buddhism for the non-believers)

And yeah, sacred music is great, believer or no.

Buddhism is about as far from theistic as you can get, and doesn't require much to believe in other than the human condition eventually involves sickness, old age and death.  One of my favorite treatises is by a well respected Theravadan Monk called 'No Religion'

[jowcol]

Yes nesf, very interesting.  I do this quite often.  Avro Part is very useful for this, as are things like the Tallis variations (V Williams) and by all the Gods, Bach!  Bach is very complex!       Bach is more complex than the Classical period that came after him, and is quite brilliant for honing mindfulness.  Interesting that as an aetheist I find the best music to meditate by is music written for, or inspired by, religion.  Like Professor Dawkins said, 'I am a most religious non-believer.'  But I guess thats for another thread...
I am with you on this, beliefs or no beliefs.  Music can edify the spirit, and some of it we can use to do so.   0:)

One thing I'd say is that Bach does tend to keep a very even beat, and that provides an repetitive anchor as you get lost in the polyphony.  (I'm not being critical here-- I LOVE Bach.)

[nesf]

Buddhism is about as far from theistic as you can get, and doesn't require much to believe in other than the human condition eventually involves sickness, old age and death.  One of my favorite treatises is by a well respected Theravadan Monk called 'No Religion'

The issues I've seen is with the deva and other spiritual rather than theistic beliefs bothering some committed agnostics and theists. Personally I just find it all fairly interesting though I badly need to read more about it.

[Bogey]

Vintage film footage of me meditating to my music:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uv1PxInJnY&feature=related