Mozart's Magic Flute Appreciation Thread

Started by Haffner, April 11, 2007, 05:48:32 AM

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Haffner

Couldn't resist! I'm hoping to hear about others' favorite interpretations of this wonderful piece, as well as any personal experiences linked to it.

My first experience with The Magic Flute was the Sawallisch-directed vhs video, featuring the excellent Lucia Popp and Francisco Araiza. Shortly after, I picked up the "old-sounding", yet terrific, Beecham-conducted rendition, as well as the Dover Score.

I count this as one of the great masterpieces of Music. I often hear the character Papageno in fourth movement of Beethoven's 9th, and Wagner's character Siegfried definitely bears a stylistic debt to both Tamino and Papageno.

I haven't heard any other videos and/or recordings of this piece besides the ones listed above, so I'm excited if anyone could share their own favorites!

karlhenning

Well, the only film version I have seen is the Bergman classic, essentially a staged performance at Drottningholm.  I am interested in seeing Branagh's recent version, though.

Haffner

Quote from: karlhenning on April 11, 2007, 05:51:23 AM
Well, the only film version I have seen is the Bergman classic, essentially a staged performance at Drottningholm.  I am interested in seeing Branagh's recent version, though.



Karl, I've been really interested in the Bergman. I heard it was a bit more "modern/realistic". Could you tell me more, please?

Todd

Karl Bohm's studio recording is superb.  I also rather enjoy Claudio Abbado's recent recording of the work.  For AV I've only seen Colin Davis' recent version, but it's a fine if perhaps slightly too serious take, but Simon Keenlyside's Papageno alone is worth the price of admission.
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karlhenning

Quote from: Haffner on April 11, 2007, 05:52:28 AM
Karl, I've been really interested in the Bergman. I heard it was a bit more "modern/realistic". Could you tell me more, please?

The theatre at Drottningholm is a charming Baroque interior;  and a lot of the staging is actually fairly Classical (stage 'machinery' not very different to what you see in the opening of The Adventures of Baron von Munchausen, for instance).  It's a charming film.

71 dB

So, why do people love Magic Flute? Is it the libretto, music or both?
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Haffner

Quote from: 71 dB on April 11, 2007, 06:27:30 AM
So, why do people love Magic Flute? Is it the libretto, music or both?



Well. the music is extraordinary, obviously folk-influenced at times. But, like Wagner's mid-to late era operas, one has to really try to understand the meaning of the libretto (as a Masonic-ally influenced set of symbols), and put aside the immediate sensual experience for a bit.


Schikaneder's libretto foreshadowed Beethoven's use of the Ode To Joy. The masonic lodge believed in the brotherhood of all men. Such was probably a direct reaction to the aristocracy of the time, and the libretto's overall meaning goes well beyond that. There are allegories involving Catholicism, Protestantism, Ancient Egyptian-ism, Judaism...the list goes on.

As for the music, check out the incredible use of fugue in the Ouverture, the scene with the guards and Tamino,etc. Mozart used fugue (or, more precisely, fugal elements) in a way not unlike his Jupiter Symphony (the last movement). Different than Bach, and (if I dare tempt many Bach-lover's lynching tendencies with this next statement) seemingly less dry-at-times than certain parts of Bach's work. More of an "unlearned" style, chance to say. I recognize Bach as of course being a phenomenal composer, but Mozart just seemed to breathe a more vigorous form of life into the fugal form.


And I love the catchier tunes!! :)

MishaK

#7
I consumed the Magic Flute with my mother's milk, so to speak. I have seen countless performances and stagings since I was very young and still love this opera every time. I will be flying to New York this weekend to see the William Kentridge (one of my favorite visual artists) La Monnaie production at the BAM.

As to recorded performances, my preferrence would be for any of Solti II, Abbado and Fricsay. They are very different performances, yet equally compelling. Here some short summaries of the recordings I am familiar with.

Solti II (digital), VPO, Jo, Moll, Ziesak, et al: Solti made two recordings. I am not familiar with his first attempt, though by his own account he did not like it and was pining to do it again, which wish was eventually fulfilled in the early 90s with this set. In terms of the singing I find this set the most compelling. Sumi Jo is at the top of her powers as a wonderfully vengeful Queen who sends shivers through my spine every time I hear this recording. Kurt Moll is the prototypical fatherly wise Sarastro, a model for the role. His low notes are a force of nature. Uwe Heilmann is a compelling Tamino and Ruth Ziesak is my favorite Pamina on record. Her "Ach ich fühl's" is amazing. Her diction is stellar. Orchestrally, Solti's VPO has the biggest sound of the three that I would recommend, which may be off-putting for some. But it is by no means overwhelming or inappropriate. He conducts Mozart very naturally and the singing ensembles are marvels of coordination and clarity.

Fricsay (mono), RIAS, Streich, Haefliger, Dieskau, Greindl et al.: Fricsay's touch here is wonderful. From the get go, he produces a magical fairly tale atmosphere that bridges the inherent contradictions between the solemn and the comedic in this opera with ease. That alone for me makes this a top recommendation. That the singers are superb is an added bonus. Rita Streich has a coloratura agility that even Jo can't match, though I find her a tad too sweet. She lacks the vengeance Jo brings to the part. Haefliger is a great Tamino and Greindl is perfect for his role as well. I find Fischer-Dieskau a bit unconvincing as Papageno, just not endearing enough. But overall, this is close to an ideal set, if you don't mind the mono sound and the fact that the dialogues are spoken by different actors than the singers.

Abbado (live), Mahler Chamber Orch., Strehl, Pape, Miklosa, et al.: I have reviewed this at length elsewhere. Absolutely stunning performance brimming with the electricity of a live event. Abbado, like Fricsay, manages to produce an intimate warm atmosphere of fairy tale story-telling that again prevents either excessive solemnity or excessive lightness. His control of the orchestra is marvellous. He uses a modern chamber orchestra with some HIP touches to produce an amazing textural clarity while never losing the amazing palette of colors he employs here. The star of this performance is Christoph Strehl, who is hands down the most amazing Tamino I have ever heard. Rene Pape as Sarastro is unusually bold and doesn't sound like an old wise man, but is compelling in his own way. Müller-Brachmann is a great Papageno who never lets his part devolve into juvenile silliness but imbues it with real humanity. The women on this set I find less convincing. Dorothea Röschmann is just a bit pale as Pamina and just doesn't convince me that her character is suicidal after being rejected by Tamino. Erika Miklosa is not very agile at the top of her range and her German pronunciation is unclear and marked by a noticeable Hungarian accent. Speaking of diction, all of the other singers have superb diction and articulation. A wonderful set. You would never know from listening to this that this was Abbado's first production of the Magic Flute.

Recording I like considerably less:

Klemperer, Philharmonia, Popp, Gedda, Berry, Janowitz et al.: This was my first recorded set and I have to confess I haven't listened to it in a long time. What I recall not liking about this recording is a) Klemperer's heavyweight Wagnerian orchestra and turgid tempos b) Walter Berry just sounds too old as Papageno c) the three ladies are partially overpowered (Schwarzkopf for heaven's sake!) and just aren't a good ensemble d) many of the singers don't articulate well e) spoken scenes are cut out completely. What is nice is Janowitz as Pamina, though more for musical reasons than her dramatic identification with her part. Lucia Popp is a solid queen, though she lacks the agility of Jo or Streich and sounds dramatically bland in comparison.

Östman, Drottningholm, Streit, Jo, Bonney et al.: This set has been praised through the roof and I still don't quite understand why. Yes, Bonney is a lovely Pamina with beautiful phrasing. I only wish I could understand a word she's saying. I frankly prefer Ziesak, who is here relegated to 1st lady. I am not against experimentation with tempos, but Östman's tempos just don't make any sense at all. When he decides to do something fast it is at breakneck speed and when he's slow things lose tension and barely limp even though he's not as slow as he seems. Phrasing and articulation fall by the wayside. He chases Jo through her "der Hölle Rache" at such a ridiculous tempo that the scene is robbed of any of the devastating atmosphere it should have. It is astounding that Jo manages to actually hit and articulate all the notes at that speed, but she is so much more dramatically convincing with Solti. What is even worse about Östman's direction is that he uses a HIP ensemble, yet fails to achieve textural clarity. Things are muddled in a number of places. No comparison to what Abbado achieves with a modern chamber orchestra. I really like Gilles Cachemaille's Papageno despite his French accent. He's endearingly human even in the spoken dialogues.

Christie, Les Arts florissants, Dessay, Mannion, Blochwitz et al.: This one was a big disappointment for me as I really love Christie's work in many other areas. This is less succesful. The set has all the hallmarks of other winning Christie recipes: young singers who sing without forcing it and are dramatically convincing, and a lively period ensemble. Yet somehow, I think Christie may have used the wrong "period" for his ensemble, not matching the Mozartean sound concept. What I find massively irritating here is that the orchestral balances are way off. There are numerous totally lopsided chords (a number of the famous triple fanfares, for instance) where the top note is inaudible and some bassoon in the middle or at the bottom dominates, oddly suggesting a totally different harmony than what Mozart wrote. Similar issues abound elsewhere, where phrasing and articulation are unclear due to odd orchestral balances. To hear how wonderfully it can be done you'd have to listen to Abbado. That being said, the singers are wonderful, assuming you accept the chamber music volume and aren't looking for "grand" opera (for that, take Solti). Natalie Dessay is a stunning queen, though I'd again give the nod to Sumi Jo who simply has unmatched security of intonation and vocal power.

It's been a long time since I heard the Böhm set, which I don't own. I do remember that it is worth the price of admission for Wunderlich's excellent Tamino alone, though I found Evelyn Lear's Pamina and Roberta Peters' Queen somehow unsatisfying. Böhm has also conducted better Mozart than he does here. Just a bit too broad, not quite wanting to get off the ground in places.

Quote from: Haffner on April 11, 2007, 07:51:37 AM
As for the music, check out the incredible use of fugue in the Ouverture, the scene with the guards and Tamino,etc. Mozart used fugue (or, more precisely, fugal elements) in a way not unlike his Jupiter Symphony (the last movement). Different than Bach, and (if I dare tempt many Bach-lover's lynching tendencies with this next statement) seemingly less dry-at-times than certain parts of Bach's work. More of an "unlearned" style, chance to say. I recognize Bach as of course being a phenomenal composer, but Mozart just seemed to breathe a more vigorous form of life into the fugal form.

That and so much more! The harmonic relationships of all the different numbers to each other, the amazing Papageno-Pamina duet, the stunning coloratura writing for the queen, the chorus of the priests ("O Isis"), the amazing march of the priests, the balancing of the disparate dramatic elements: tragedy, solemnity, comedy, vindication, vengeance, foregiveness, and so much more.... Another parallel to the Jupiter symphony (thanks for your observation, BTW): I was just reviewing the score this morning and realized that the Allegro of the overture matches the effect of the finale of the Jupiter (also in the Linzer), where there is a fast but soft opening statement in the strings that then bursts out in glorious forte in full orchestra. Brahms used this idea to great effect in the finale of his second symphony as well.

EDIT: Looking at available Zauberflöte recordings on amazon, there are a few intriguing ones I have never heard. Does anyone have any comments on Sigiswald Kuijken's version? Any cmoments on Colin Davis/Dresden?

Don

Quote from: O Mensch on April 11, 2007, 08:18:38 AM
Recording I like considerably less:

Klemperer, Philharmonia, Popp, Gedda, Berry, Janowitz et al.: This was my first recorded set and I have to confess I haven't listened to it in a long time. What I recall not liking about this recording is a) Klemperer's heavyweight Wagnerian orchestra and turgid tempos b) Walter Berry just sound too old as Papageno c) the three ladies are partially overpowered (Schwarzkopf for heaven's sake!) and just aren't a good ensemble d) many of the singers don't articulate well f) spoken scenes are cut out completely. What is nice is Janowitz as Pamina, though more for musical reasons than her dramatic identification with her part. Lucia Popp is a solid queen, though she lacks the agility of Jo or Streich and sounds dramatically bland in comparison.


Sorry to hear the above, because Klemperer's is my all-time favored version.  Surprised to read that you consider Berry to sound to old for Papageno; I think he's fantastic with wonderful articulation.

Haffner

Quote from: O Mensch on April 11, 2007, 08:18:38 AM
I consumed the Magic Flute with my mother's milk, so to speak. I have seen countless performances and stagings since I was very young and still love this opera every time. I will be flying to New York this weekend to see the William Kentridge (one of my favorite visual artists) La Monnaie production at the BAM.


You are so lucky, O! That Kentridge production sounds great!



Quote from: O Mensch on April 11, 2007, 08:18:38 AM


As to recorded performances, my preferrence would be for any of Solti II, Abbado and Fricsay. They are very different performances, yet equally compelling. Here some short summaries of the recordings I am familiar with.

Solti II (digital), VPO, Jo, Moll, Ziesak, et al: Solti made two recordings. I am not familiar with his first attempt, though by his own account he did not like it and was pining to do it again, which wish was eventually fulfilled in the early 90s with this set. In terms of the singing I find this set the most compelling. Sumi Jo is at the top of her powers as a wonderfully vengeful Queen who sends shivers through my spine every time I hear this recording. Kurt Moll is the prototypical fatherly wise Sarastro, a model for the role. His low notes are a force of nature. Uwe Heilmann is a compelling Tamino and Ruth Ziesak is my favorite Pamina on record. Her "Ach ich fühl's" is amazing. Her diction is stellar. Orchestrally, Solti's VPO has the biggest sound of the three that I would recommend, which may be off-putting for some. But it is by no means overwhelming or inappropriate. He conducts Mozart very naturally and the singing ensembles are marvels of coordination and clarity.

Fricsay (mono), RIAS, Streich, Haefliger, Dieskau, Greindl et al.: Fricsay's touch here is wonderful. From the get go, he produces a magical fairly tale atmosphere that bridges the inherent contradictions between the solemn and the comedic in this opera with ease. That alone for me makes this a top recommendation. That the singers are superb is an added bonus. Rita Streich has a coloratura agility that even Jo can't match, though I find her a tad to sweet. She lacks the vengeance Jo brings to the part. Haefliger is a great Tamino and Greindl is perfect for his role as well. I find Fischer-Dieskau a bit unconvincing as Papageno, just not endearing enough. But overall, this is close to an ideal set, if you don't mind the mono sound and the fact that the dialogues are spoken by different actors than the singers.

Abbado (live), Mahler Chamber Orch., Strehl, Pape, Miklosa, et al.: I have reviewed this at length elsewhere. Absolutely stunning performance brimming with the electricity of a live event. Abbado, like Fricsay, manages to produce an intimate warm atmosphere of fairy tale story-telling that again prevents either excessive solemnity or excessive lightness. His control of the orchestra is marvellous. He uses a modern chamber orchestra with some HIP touches to produce an amazing textural clarity while never losing the amazing palette of colors he employs here. The star of this performance is Christoph Strehl, who is hands down the most amazing Tamino I have ever heard. Rene Pape as Sarastro is unusually bold and doesn't sound like an old wise man, but is compelling in his own way. Müller-Brachmann is a great Papageno who never lets his part devolve into juvenile silliness but imbues it with real humanity. The women on this set I find less convincing. Dorothea Röschmann is just a bit pale as Pamina and just doesn't convince me that her character is suicidal after being rejected by Tamino. Erika Miklosa is not very agile at the top of her range and her German pronunciation is unclear and marked by a noticeable Hungarian accent. Speaking of diction, all of the other singers have superb diction and articulation. A wonderful set. You would never know from listening to this that this was Abbado's first production of the Magic Flute.

Recording I like considerably less:

Klemperer, Philharmonia, Popp, Gedda, Berry, Janowitz et al.: This was my first recorded set and I have to confess I haven't listened to it in a long time. What I recall not liking about this recording is a) Klemperer's heavyweight Wagnerian orchestra and turgid tempos b) Walter Berry just sound too old as Papageno c) the three ladies are partially overpowered (Schwarzkopf for heaven's sake!) and just aren't a good ensemble d) many of the singers don't articulate well f) spoken scenes are cut out completely. What is nice is Janowitz as Pamina, though more for musical reasons than her dramatic identification with her part. Lucia Popp is a solid queen, though she lacks the agility of Jo or Streich and sounds dramatically bland in comparison.

Östman, Drottingholm, Streit, Jo, Bonney et al.: This set has been praised through the roof and I still don't quite understand why. Yes, Bonney is a lovely Pamina with beautiful phrasing. I only wish I could understand a word she's saying. I frankly prefer Ziesak, who is here relegated to 1st lady. I am not against experimentation with tempos, but Östman's tempos just don't make any sense at all. When he decides to do something fast it is at breakneck speed and when he's slow things lose tension and barely limp even though he's not as slow as he seems. Phrasing and articulation fall by the wayside. He chases Jo through her "der Hölle Rache" at such a ridiculous tempo that the scene is robbed of any of the devastating atmosphere it should have. It is astounding that Jo manages to actually hit and articulate all the notes at that speed, but she is so much more dramatically convincing with Solti. What is even worse about Östman's direction is that he uses a HIP ensemble, yet fails to achieve textural clarity. Things are muddled in a number of places. No comparison to what Abbado achieves with a modern chamber orchestra. I really like Gilles Cachemaille's Papageno despite his French accent. He's endearingly human even in the spoken dialogues.

Christie, Les Arts florissants, Dessay, Mannion, Blochwitz et al.: This one was a big disappointment for me as I really love Christie's work in many other areas. This is less succesful. The set has all the hallmarks of other winning Christie recipes: young singers who sing without forcing it and are dramatically convincing, and a lively period ensemble. Yet somehow, I think Christie may have used the wrong "period" for his ensemble, not matching the Mozartean sound concept. What I find massively irritating here is that the orchestral balances are way off. There are numerous totally lopsided chords (a number of the famous triple fanfares, for instance) where the top note is inaudible and some bassoon in the middle or at the bottom dominates, oddly suggesting a totally different harmony than what Mozart wrote. Similar issues abound elsewhere, where phrasing and articulation are unclear due to odd orchestral balances. To hear how wonderfully it can be done you'd have to listen to Abbado. That being said, the singers are wonderful, assuming you accept the chamber music volume and aren't looking for "grand" opera (for that, take Solti). Natalie Dessay is a stunning queen, though I'd again give the nod to Sumi Jo who simply has unmatched security of intonation and vocal power.

It's been a long time since I heard the Böhm set, which I don't own. I do remember that it is worth the price of admission for Wunderlich's excellent Tamino alone, though I found Evelyn Lear's Pamina and Roberta Peters' Queen somehow unsatisfying. Böhm has also conducted better Mozart than he does here. Just a bit too broad, not quite wanting to get off the ground in places.

That and so much more! The harmonic relationships of all the different numbers to each other, the amazing Papageno-Pamina duet, the stunning coloratura writing for the queen, the chorus of the priests ("O Isis"), the amazing march of the priests, the balancing of the disparate dramatic elements: tragedy, solemnity, comedy, vindication, vengeance, foregiveness, and so much more.... Anotehr parallel to the Jupiter symphony (thanks for your observation, BTW): I was just reviewing the score this morning and realized that the Allegro of the overture matches the effect of the finale of the Jupiter (also in the Linzer), where there is a fast but soft opening statement in the strings that then bursts out in glorious forte in full orchestra. Brahms used this idea to great effect in the finale of his second symphony as well.



Thank you so much for the reccomendations, O. For me, the Magic Flute tells the story of how, through every person on earth sharing, helping, and believing in each other, mortals become like Gods. Perhaps Wagner continued the storyline into the next level with his Ring saga. The Gods are on fire, and mortals must become like Gods because of it.

MishaK

#10
Quote from: Don on April 11, 2007, 08:29:45 AM
Sorry to hear the above, because Klemperer's is my all-time favored version.  Surprised to read that you consider Berry to sound to old for Papageno; I think he's fantastic with wonderful articulation.

Compare to Michael Kraus (Solti II), Gilles Cachemaille (Östman) or Hanno Müller-Brachmann (Abbado) and you'll hear what I mean. Berry is jovial and all, but just doesn't sound like a young, inexperienced man brimming with desire yet constrained by fear. He sounds too at ease, too experienced. I'm just not buying the part from him, dramatically.

Quote from: Haffner on April 11, 2007, 08:37:48 AM
For me, the Magic Flute tells the story of how, through every person on earth sharing, helping, and believing in each other, mortals become like Gods.

Indeed! "Sterbliche, den Göttern gleich"

Haffner

Quote from: O Mensch on April 11, 2007, 08:18:38 AM

Another parallel to the Jupiter symphony (thanks for your observation, BTW): I was just reviewing the score this morning and realized that the Allegro of the overture matches the effect of the finale of the Jupiter (also in the Linzer), where there is a fast but soft opening statement in the strings that then bursts out in glorious forte in full orchestra. Brahms used this idea to great effect in the finale of his second symphony as well.

EDIT: Looking at available Zauberflöte recordings on amazon, there are a few intriguing ones I have never heard. Does anyone have any comments on Sigiswald Kuijken's version? Any cmoments on Colin Davis/Dresden?


The contrasts between the winds, brass, and strings that Mozart emphasized in the opening of the Jupiter are amazing and inspiring.

I wonder if the Kurijken is HiP?

MishaK


Don

Quote from: O Mensch on April 11, 2007, 08:39:52 AM
Compare to Michael Kraus (Solti II), Gilles Cachemaille (Christie) or Hanno Müller-Brachmann (Abbado) and you'll hear what I mean. Berry is jovial and all, but just doesn't sound like a young, inexperienced man brimming with desire yet constrained by fear. He sounds too at ease, too experienced. I'm just not buying the part from him, dramatically.


I've heard those three and most others.  Berry leaves them in the shade.

Haffner


MishaK

Quote from: Don on April 11, 2007, 08:44:44 AM
I've heard those three and most others.  Berry leaves them in the shade.

To each his own then...

Don

Quote from: O Mensch on April 11, 2007, 08:47:18 AM
To each his own then...

Most certainly.  Think I'll take out my Mackerras and give it a spin.

Mozart

It is not an opera I can just listen to, I have to watch it. I saw it live twice last year it was wonderful. The high notes made my ears hurt.

71 dB

Quote from: Haffner on April 11, 2007, 07:51:37 AM
As for the music, check out the incredible use of fugue in the Ouverture

Well, it's good but I have never found Mozart's fugues that special.

Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

Don Giovanni

I have the Karl Bohm recording which I've always enjoyed. The male singers are the real stars of the show - the women aren't always consistently good in the recording.