Szell vs Ormandy

[springrite]

When I was single and when I had a babe over I'd play Ormandy.

Now that I am happily married with a beautiful daughter, it is Szell.

[Winky Willy]

Szell made Cleveland the greatest orchestra in the world for a little while. A terrific conductor. Ormandy directed decent performances with Stokowski's orchestra. No contest in my opinion!

[Mirror Image]

Good to see Szell has won this poll. It's not surprising that he did either. I can't recall one recording by Ormandy that has really done anything for me. Reiner beats Ormandy too. No question about it. Ormandy just seems to me to be all surface and not enough of depth or really understanding of the music. I will say that I admire Ormandy's accompaniment abilities. This is an area he excelled in I think.

[RebLem]

To me, George Szell is nothing less than the greatest conductor who ever lived.  His "specialties" were the core of the great Germanic and mitteleuropean repertoire--Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Brahms, Dvorak, Wagner, and Strauss.  What holds his performances together is precise playing, a tight ensemble playing that you usually find only in small groups like the string quartet.  His sense of pulse and, within that, an ear for exposing the inner voices as well as the long line were what distinguished his work.  I am currently reading Michael Charry's biography of him recently published by the University of Illinois Press.  mong his greatest recordings: The Mozart Posthorn Serenade, the Haydn Symphonies 93 & 94, The Beethoven Piano Concerti with Leon Fleisher, the last four Beethoven Symphonies, The Schubert 8th and 9th, the Mendelssohn Italian Symphony, the Schumann symphonies, the Brahms 3rd, the Haydn Variations, and the two overtures, the piano concerti with Fleisher and Serkin as well as the First with Curzon, the Dvorak 7th, Strauss's Till Eulenspiegel and Death and Transfiguration. the Bartok First Piano Concerto with R Serkin.

[Mirror Image]

To me, George Szell is nothing less than the greatest conductor who ever lived.

The most outrageous statement I've read on GMG. Szell wasn't the greatest or at least for me he wasn't. He was great, but the greatest.

[trung224]

To me, George Szell is nothing less than the greatest conductor who ever lived.  His "specialties" were the core of the great Germanic and mitteleuropean repertoire--Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Brahms, Dvorak, Wagner, and Strauss.  What holds his performances together is precise playing, a tight ensemble playing that you usually find only in small groups like the string quartet.  His sense of pulse and, within that, an ear for exposing the inner voices as well as the long line were what distinguished his work.  I am currently reading Michael Charry's biography of him recently published by the University of Illinois Press.  mong his greatest recordings: The Mozart Posthorn Serenade, the Haydn Symphonies 93 & 94, The Beethoven Piano Concerti with Leon Fleisher, the last four Beethoven Symphonies, The Schubert 8th and 9th, the Mendelssohn Italian Symphony, the Schumann symphonies, the Brahms 3rd, the Haydn Variations, and the two overtures, the piano concerti with Fleisher and Serkin as well as the First with Curzon, the Dvorak 7th, Strauss's Till Eulenspiegel and Death and Transfiguration. the Bartok First Piano Concerto with R Serkin.

As much as I admired Szell, I don't think he is the greatest because the greatest conductor simply do not exist. You prefer the tight, balance, propulsive interpretation, but others, like me, prefer more emotional approach, so Furtwangler, Bernstein is my favorite, that is matter of taste. If Szell has the great recordings in many pieces, others, such as Furtwangler, Karajan, Bernstein, Toscanini also have so many great recordings. So, IMHO, your opinion about Szell is not too objective and unfair. Indeed, Szell is still one of greatest, surely  in the top 20 greatest conductors of 20th century

[DavidW]

The most outrageous statement I've read on GMG. Szell wasn't the greatest or at least for me he wasn't. He was great, but the greatest.

I think the whole "to me" part doesn't make it outrageous at all.

[Mirror Image]

I think the whole "to me" part doesn't make it outrageous at all.

Yeah, I know he wrote "to me," but I'm still baffled by his statement. Szell, the greatest?

[Gurn Blanston]

The most outrageous statement I've read on GMG. Szell wasn't the greatest or at least for me he wasn't. He was great, but the greatest.

Yeah, I know he wrote "to me," but I'm still baffled by his statement. Szell, the greatest?

Sometimes you puzzle me, John. At first, I thought you were really down with the concept of "to me", but then, it seems to have escaped you. I have to admit, it makes reading the collected works of MI an adventure.

Thread duty;
I like Ormandy. I would have enjoyed living in his neck of the woods back in his heyday, I always seem to enjoy his recordings. 

[Mirror Image]

Sometimes you puzzle me, John. At first, I thought you were really down with the concept of "to me", but then, it seems to have escaped you. I have to admit, it makes reading the collected works of MI an adventure.

Yeah, Gurn, I puzzle myself a lot as well.

[mc ukrneal]

Sometimes you puzzle me, John. At first, I thought you were really down with the concept of "to me", but then, it seems to have escaped you. I have to admit, it makes reading the collected works of MI an adventure.

Thread duty;
I like Ormandy. I would have enjoyed living in his neck of the woods back in his heyday, I always seem to enjoy his recordings. 

Ormandy is the guy people seem to like to dislike (or hate even) for some reason. I find it hard to really pick one - both had wonderful moments. I picked Ormandy just to offset this nonsense about Szell being the greatest ever...ducks...ducks again...sticks out toungue and ducks again...(checks to see if all body parts intact)...

[Ataraxia]

To me or not to me? That is the question.

[Sergeant Rock]

Sometimes you puzzle me, John.

Thread duty;
I like Ormandy. I would have enjoyed living in his neck of the woods back in his heyday, I always seem to enjoy his recordings. 

Gurn, you're devoted to the Classical era and yet you'd rather have lived in Ormandy's neck of the woods? What??? That's really surprising. Szell/Cleveland was considered the greatest Haydn/Mozart/Beethoven band in the world (even the European critics thought so). Having experienced him live in that repertoire (not just through recordings) I can attest to the fact that they were phenomenally good. Both you and John puzzle me in this thread 

Sarge

[Karl Henning]

Some passing tiff amonst the Haydnistas . . . .

[DavidW]

To be fair on the essential classics Ormandy was usually covering the romantics and neoromantics, while Szell was covering the classical composers.

[Karl Henning]

Not sure I could ever forgive Ormandy those cuts . . . .

[Ataraxia]

To be fair on the essential classics Ormandy was usually covering the romantics and neoromantics, while Szell was covering the classical composers.

I read that as "necromantics."

Of course. 

[Karl Henning]

So, tending towards Ormandy, then? ; )

[Mirror Image]

Not sure I could ever forgive Ormandy those cuts . . . .

Yeah, didn't he make cuts to Rachmaninov's 2nd? What else did he make cuts to?

[Karl Henning]

Seems like practically any Rakhmaninov score that crossed his desk ; )