Author Topic: Miloslav Kabelac(1908-79)  (Read 36161 times)

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DieNacht

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Re: Miloslav Kabelac(1908-79)
« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2012, 11:09:52 PM »
Just reheard the "Mystery ..."  & like it. I hear some hints of Janacek ("Taras Bulba") in the later part of the work, and I also like the changes occurring about 11 minutes into the work, leaving space for various events. One could imagine it being the 1st movement of a symphony that would have been really grandiose ... Its cinematic qualities would probably benefit from a hi-end modern recording of the Chandos sort - perhaps combined with more Czech 20th century orchestral works, like Lubos Fiser´s "15 Pictures", Jan Klusak´s "Mahler Variations" + one or two other, unknown works ...

The "Hamlet Improvisation" is probably less substantial, but seems somewhat more modern and fragmented. Again, there must be some Czech-folksyness involved (?) - after 7mins for instance some similarities also with the musical language of the later Martinu, then perhaps Janacek ...

The Cello Sonata is an earlier, IMO probably less interesting work (1946), but dark and quite martial, and was recorded on Panton cd 1990 81 1014-2, soloists Veis & Veisova. The Scherzo is perhaps the most fascinating section with a rather wild, almost "cimbalom"-like piano accompanying the cello. The other work on that disc, a Cello Sonata by Jan Hanus, has a bit more diversity to offer IMO, though. The CD´s total playing time is only 42 mins.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 01:06:02 AM by DieNacht »

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Miloslav Kabelac(1908-79)
« Reply #41 on: February 15, 2012, 01:19:18 AM »
Thanks, Jeffrey. What version did you get of Persian Hours? Segerstam or Holliger?

OT

Segerstam on Marco Polo John (hope I've got that right - apologies if not).  Which is better? I also ordered a new piano version on Naxos.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline starrynight

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Re: Miloslav Kabelac(1908-79)
« Reply #42 on: February 15, 2012, 05:15:27 AM »
I'm not Colin and I can't speak for him, but I think that's an error on your part. Mystery of Time is a fantastic work IMHO. Colin knows this and he's simply sharing his love for the music, so what's wrong with that? If it weren't for his enthusiasm, I wouldn't have even known about it! My blatant enthusiam for Koechlin for all those months wasn't because I was insecure with my own opinion of his music, but rather I wanted other people to give him a chance too.

There's a few other things too.  First of all I said it made it seem like it was wanting confirmation so I was not presuming anything and was opening it up for a response, and many people are like that out there as I can tell on popular music forums for instance.  Second, I wasn't commenting on your specific reason for talking about Koechlin (who I first heard in the 90s), and you cannot speak for everyone out there anyway because not everyone is like you.  Also I myself have probably discovered more good classical music just by looking at many composers randomly than just by taking recommendations.  Much of the music out there which is worth hearing isn't really recommended by people (particularly in the area of modern classical which has a small listener base) as most people don't know about it anyway.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 05:38:11 AM by starrynight »

Offline Dundonnell

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Re: Miloslav Kabelac(1908-79)
« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2012, 06:15:29 AM »
I do regret mentioning the concept of 'the great composer'. Categorising composers as 'great' or 'good' is a bit of a red herring. So let's leave that to one side, shall we ;D

As for 'recommendations': yes, I do make recommendations and I am both delighted and flattered when some people follow up on these recommendations and like what they hear enough to comment on that fact. Others are, of course, fully entitled to ignore these recommendations and pursue their own investigative processes. I make no claims for the quality of my tastes or the perspicacity of my judgments.

I do know, however, a handful of members of this site quite well now and I think that I have at least an inkling into their own musical tastes. The benefit of a board like this is to suggest to others that they might like a particular piece. If they don't then so be it. It certainly is not the end of the world ;D

The friend to whom I sent the link, not a member of this forum but someone who used to run an orchestra and has taken it to Prague to perform Martinu, was surprised that Belohlavek had not taken up the Kabelac and done it at the Proms. But perhaps Belohlavek doesn't much like it ;D

Offline Lethevich

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Re: Miloslav Kabelac(1908-79)
« Reply #44 on: February 15, 2012, 07:20:51 AM »
Don't worry, you can add me to the list too. And whilst I'm here, a word for the Eight Preludes for piano (op 30 I think, I can't find the score right now). Some of these also feature that kind of proto-minimalist writing, or a similar kind of litany-technique which is very effective. Supposedly these are his finest piano pieces, and they are, IMO, some of the best music in the Czech piano repertoire.

Agh, awesome music unrecorded, whyyyy ;__; I also like "interesting" piano music - if a composer finds an interesting personal language, and can express it well through such a pure medium as a solo instrument, then it has to be special.
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Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Miloslav Kabelac(1908-79)
« Reply #45 on: February 15, 2012, 08:45:00 AM »
OT

Segerstam on Marco Polo John (hope I've got that right - apologies if not).  Which is better? I also ordered a new piano version on Naxos.

Well, both orchestral recordings of The Persian Hours are worth owning I think. I'm not, however, a big fan of Segerstam's other Koechlin recordings as I think he underplays a lot of the music and doesn't give the right kind of detail. Holliger, on the other hand, is spot-on with his interpretations. Dynamic, detailed, and emotional.
"Humility is society's greatest misconception."

My "Top 5" Favorite Composers: Debussy, Mahler, Strauss, Sibelius and Bartók


Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Miloslav Kabelac(1908-79)
« Reply #46 on: February 15, 2012, 08:48:12 AM »
Much of the music out there which is worth hearing isn't really recommended by people (particularly in the area of modern classical which has a small listener base) as most people don't know about it anyway.

Somebody knows about it or it wouldn't ever be mentioned and there wouldn't be recordings being made. Your comment makes no sense.

« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 08:50:20 AM by Mirror Image »
"Humility is society's greatest misconception."

My "Top 5" Favorite Composers: Debussy, Mahler, Strauss, Sibelius and Bartók


Offline Luke

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Re: Miloslav Kabelac(1908-79)
« Reply #47 on: February 15, 2012, 09:04:13 AM »
Agh, awesome music unrecorded, whyyyy ;__; I also like "interesting" piano music - if a composer finds an interesting personal language, and can express it well through such a pure medium as a solo instrument, then it has to be special.

Don't worry, it isn't unrecorded.



mp3 clips available from here too. I have the score too, if anyone else is into that sort of thing...  ;)

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Miloslav Kabelac(1908-79)
« Reply #48 on: February 15, 2012, 09:29:17 AM »
Dude!
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Offline Lethevich

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Re: Miloslav Kabelac(1908-79)
« Reply #49 on: February 15, 2012, 09:39:23 AM »
Don't worry, it isn't unrecorded.

Ooh, danke. I saw the word "score" and took it to be a bad omen ;D I'm picking that disc up.

To my surprise there is this too. It's one of those things that I don't know if the current price is stable and worth seeing if it nudges down a bit, or whether it's disappearing and might soon be unavailable -_-

Edit: picked it up, can't risk it disappearing and it's not too much above the usual new price.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 09:45:31 AM by Lethevich »
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Offline Luke

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Re: Miloslav Kabelac(1908-79)
« Reply #50 on: February 15, 2012, 10:11:04 AM »
Feeling a bit dim, because the one I actually own is the one you just posted. The one I linked to was merely the first I found, plus I read a very nice review of it a day or two ago which had kept it fresh in my mind.

Offline Lethevich

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Re: Miloslav Kabelac(1908-79)
« Reply #51 on: February 15, 2012, 10:35:44 AM »
Feeling a bit dim, because the one I actually own is the one you just posted. The one I linked to was merely the first I found, plus I read a very nice review of it a day or two ago which had kept it fresh in my mind.

It took much restraint not to get the accompanying Supraphon disc for cello/piano works, but that one is now on my wishlist too - they are both programmed so nicely.

Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Miloslav Kabelac(1908-79)
« Reply #52 on: February 15, 2012, 10:56:02 AM »
Well, both orchestral recordings of The Persian Hours are worth owning I think. I'm not, however, a big fan of Segerstam's other Koechlin recordings as I think he underplays a lot of the music and doesn't give the right kind of detail. Holliger, on the other hand, is spot-on with his interpretations. Dynamic, detailed, and emotional.

Many thanks.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Miloslav Kabelac(1908-79)
« Reply #53 on: February 15, 2012, 10:57:58 AM »
"Humility is society's greatest misconception."

My "Top 5" Favorite Composers: Debussy, Mahler, Strauss, Sibelius and Bartók


Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Miloslav Kabelac(1908-79)
« Reply #54 on: February 15, 2012, 11:00:00 AM »
Only p. 3, and this has already become a thread about Koechlin? ; )
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Miloslav Kabelac(1908-79)
« Reply #55 on: February 15, 2012, 11:00:22 AM »
Only p. 3, and this has already become a thread about Koechlin? ; )

 :P
"Humility is society's greatest misconception."

My "Top 5" Favorite Composers: Debussy, Mahler, Strauss, Sibelius and Bartók


Offline Dundonnell

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Re: Miloslav Kabelac(1908-79)
« Reply #56 on: February 15, 2012, 12:16:05 PM »
Can I remind anybody who might be interested in exploring more Kabelac that his Symphony No.3 for organ, brass and timpani can be heard in a performance conducted by Libor Pesekon YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o00Rq2VvOUI
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 01:31:28 PM by Dundonnell »

Offline Lethevich

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Re: Miloslav Kabelac(1908-79)
« Reply #57 on: February 15, 2012, 12:35:10 PM »
Can I remind anybody who might be interested in exploring more Kabelace that his Symphony No.3 for organ, brass and timpani can be heard in a performance conducted by Libor Pesekon YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o00Rq2VvOUI

Good grief ;D The totally rhetorical nature of the opening movement, coupled with the "who cares if you think it's naive" tone somehow simultaneously reminded me of John Williams' Imperial music filtered through Pärt's 3rd symphony, and maybe even bits of Kancheli ??? The aesthetic comes very dangerously close to tripping a few alarms in my head, but in the end the serious-mindedness of it all is simultaneously impressive and endearing. Panufnik may also be a comparison, though I haven't heard his music in a while, and I recall it being rather more elusive than this piece.

Edit: I realise these random comparisons will probably infuriate, but I also just heard the passacaglia for the first time (I didn't have a spare half hour when reading the thread initially), and I am kinda digging the "Pettersson 8th bassline with all other bits removed" vibe of the whole opening. I really like how chaste it is, yet with a considerable inner-vibrancy developing as it plods along.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 01:24:35 PM by Lethevich »
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Offline starrynight

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Re: Miloslav Kabelac(1908-79)
« Reply #58 on: February 15, 2012, 09:37:24 PM »
Somebody knows about it or it wouldn't ever be mentioned and there wouldn't be recordings being made. Your comment makes no sense.

I said most people don't know not everyone.  So my comment actually did make sense.  There will be an awful lot of music out there that those on message boards don't know that will be very good.  I think there are hundreds of modern composers who are worth giving a chance, all people have to do is seach and listen to it, a much better way to assess than reading lots of words.

Offline Dundonnell

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Re: Miloslav Kabelac(1908-79)
« Reply #59 on: February 16, 2012, 06:02:04 AM »
I said most people don't know not everyone.  So my comment actually did make sense.  There will be an awful lot of music out there that those on message boards don't know that will be very good.  I think there are hundreds of modern composers who are worth giving a chance, all people have to do is seach and listen to it, a much better way to assess than reading lots of words.

I am afraid that the logic of that would suggest that one should have written something like: "There is a Czech composer called Miloslav Kabelac(1908-73). I am not going to tell you anything about him. Go investigate for yourselves."

That would make for a rather sterile and uninteresting board, on which all we ever talked about were composers we were all familiar with.

However, this is really not helping further discussion of Kabelac himself. I am, quite frankly, amazed that we have got to page 4 ;D