Author Topic: Recordings That You Are Considering  (Read 2239283 times)

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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #16060 on: February 19, 2021, 11:23:28 AM »
who is an untamed musicologist in your book?


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Offline milk

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #16061 on: February 21, 2021, 02:59:16 AM »


Thinking about it...
Is this a rerelease?

Offline vers la flamme

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #16062 on: February 21, 2021, 04:40:00 AM »
Is this a rerelease?

No idea, but it's not a recent release or anything; it was released in 2015.

Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #16063 on: February 21, 2021, 05:14:35 AM »
Is this a rerelease?

The label is given as Romanesca (a label unknown to me), not BIS. But I can't find anything about whether it is a licenced BIS recording or a new one. However I think Suzuki has an exclusive contract with BIS, so it is probably the old recording licenced.

https://www.amazon.com/Bach-Goldberg-Variationen-Masaaki-Suzuki/dp/B0145HEBSU
« Last Edit: February 21, 2021, 05:16:08 AM by (: premont :) »
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Offline milk

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #16064 on: February 21, 2021, 05:20:42 AM »
The label is given as Romanesca (a label unknown to me), not BIS. But I can't find anything about whether it is a licenced BIS recording or a new one. However I think Suzuki has an exclusive contract with BIS, so it is probably the old recording licenced.

https://www.amazon.com/Bach-Goldberg-Variationen-Masaaki-Suzuki/dp/B0145HEBSU
Thanks. I see.

Offline MusicTurner

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #16065 on: February 21, 2021, 02:41:43 PM »
Apparently not much info around, but this website also says that it's the 1997 BIS recording

http://www.a30a.com/goldberg/gvediscs.html

(close to the bottom of that page)
« Last Edit: February 21, 2021, 02:43:50 PM by MusicTurner »

Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #16066 on: February 21, 2021, 03:34:16 PM »
Apparently not much info around, but this website also says that it's the 1997 BIS recording

http://www.a30a.com/goldberg/gvediscs.html

(close to the bottom of that page)

Useful site, which I didn't know. Thanks for posting it. Do similar lists of other works exist?
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Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #16067 on: February 21, 2021, 08:00:44 PM »
Under consideration at the moment:

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Offline amw

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #16068 on: February 21, 2021, 08:54:34 PM »


Post your thoughts, if you have them. I don't really need new recordings of any of this material, but I have the Beethoven, Brahms, and Bartók/Stravinsky boxes and find Gielen's music making in them very close to my tastes.

Offline Jo498

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #16069 on: February 22, 2021, 12:17:45 AM »
I have had some of these Gielen recordings for years in their earlier incarnations, so I didn't get any of the boxes. He obviously has a particular reputation in 20th century music and also the reputation of being somewhat cool, dry and distant (which is also sometimes a feature of the sound of these recordings). But you already know some of his recordings and therefore these general features.
 I'd recommend the Mahler and Bruckner or at least Mahler 3,6,7,9 (I don't know the Lieder recordings, the 4th is flawed by soprano and I didn't find 1,2,5 as distinctive as the others although still not bad) and Bruckner 5 and 7. Bruckner 6 is also quite good, the 4th is the only recording of the ur-version I kept (but I still don't like that version), I didn't keep the 3rd and I am not too fond of the 8th (which is uncommonly slow for Gielen and the sound also a bit drab).
Of the mixed boxes I don't know enough to give clear recommendations. I very much like his Haydn 99+104 and also the Janacek glagolitic mass although the latter was my first and is still my only recording and probably not in favor by experts compared with Czech recordings.
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline Todd

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #16070 on: February 22, 2021, 05:10:50 AM »
I have Gielen's Mahler and Bruckner.  Like the Bruckner.  The Mahler is well done, it just leaves me cold.
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Offline DavidW

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #16071 on: February 22, 2021, 06:04:22 AM »
I recently listened to Gielen's Bruckner 8th.  It is really good but not among my favorites.  His Mahler on the other hand is top shelf but unorthodox, and not as consistent as say Bertini or Chailly (in exactly the way that Jo described).  I think that Gielen is a conductor that you are better off picking and choosing instead of just buying big boxes of.

Offline André

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #16072 on: February 22, 2021, 07:26:51 AM »
I have had some of these Gielen recordings for years in their earlier incarnations, so I didn't get any of the boxes. He obviously has a particular reputation in 20th century music and also the reputation of being somewhat cool, dry and distant (which is also sometimes a feature of the sound of these recordings). But you already know some of his recordings and therefore these general features.
 I'd recommend the Mahler and Bruckner or at least Mahler 3,6,7,9 (I don't know the Lieder recordings, the 4th is flawed by soprano and I didn't find 1,2,5 as distinctive as the others although still not bad) and Bruckner 5 and 7. Bruckner 6 is also quite good, the 4th is the only recording of the ur-version I kept (but I still don't like that version), I didn't keep the 3rd and I am not too fond of the 8th (which is uncommonly slow for Gielen and the sound also a bit drab).
Of the mixed boxes I don't know enough to give clear recommendations. I very much like his Haydn 99+104 and also the Janacek glagolitic mass although the latter was my first and is still my only recording and probably not in favor by experts compared with Czech recordings.

I agree about Bruckner 5, 7 and 8. The 5th and 7th are from the early seventies and are uncommonly fresh and direct (love them). The 8th is from much later and is indeed very slow. It would seem Gielen slowed down considerably in his later years, as is often the case (Wand, Klemperer and Böhm). There’s an interesting coupling of 2 Mahler 6th performances showing a considerable change of character regarding both tempi and structure (order of the middle movements) over the years (1971 vs 2013). Excerpts can be sampled on the net. Check the timings here:

.

His 2nd is a performance I really like: objective and tough, minutely detailed but with the big payoff clearly the focus of the whole edifice.

Offline Jo498

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #16073 on: February 22, 2021, 02:05:22 PM »
I was maybe referring to different recordings. As I said, I have none of the more recent boxes some of which include stuff dug out from Radio archives.
Whereas I mean the  recordings on Intercord/EMI/Hänssler.
The Bruckner 5th and 7th I have are from 1986 and 1989, the 8th 1990, the 4th 1994. The 6th is much later, 2001. So the 8th is from the same time but still quite slow compared to the very fleet 7th. The 5th is slow in the adagio and fast elsewhere (19'00, 18'05, 12'15, 20'40).
The Mahler 6th on Hänssler is actually between the two shown above, from 1999 (The Hänssler Mahler is mostly from the 1990s with 4 and 7 from the 80s) and the playing times are also in bewetween 24:51, 14:29, 14:46, 30:40.

Do you mean Mahler 2nd or the 2nd recording of the 6th on that box?
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline ultralinear

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #16074 on: February 22, 2021, 03:06:08 PM »
The Bruckner 8th in that big box is the 1887 original edition (with the fanfare at the end of the first movement), and not the same as this one:



Which is the 1890 (Haas) revision.

Offline André

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #16075 on: February 22, 2021, 05:24:04 PM »
I was maybe referring to different recordings. As I said, I have none of the more recent boxes some of which include stuff dug out from Radio archives.
Whereas I mean the  recordings on Intercord/EMI/Hänssler.
The Bruckner 5th and 7th I have are from 1986 and 1989, the 8th 1990, the 4th 1994. The 6th is much later, 2001. So the 8th is from the same time but still quite slow compared to the very fleet 7th. The 5th is slow in the adagio and fast elsewhere (19'00, 18'05, 12'15, 20'40).
The Mahler 6th on Hänssler is actually between the two shown above, from 1999 (The Hänssler Mahler is mostly from the 1990s with 4 and 7 from the 80s) and the playing times are also in bewetween 24:51, 14:29, 14:46, 30:40.

Do you mean Mahler 2nd or the 2nd recording of the 6th on that box?

Confusion reigns  :D. My bad. I meant his Mahler 2, not his 2nd Mahler 6. The 5th and 7th I know are from Intercord, recorded with the SWF Baden-Baden orchestra in 1990, not early seventies as I thought - don’t know if they are the same as in the Hänssler box.

I really should have gotten up from the chair and pulled them out before posting  :-[.

Offline amw

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #16076 on: February 22, 2021, 11:09:25 PM »
The Bruckner 8th in that big box is the 1887 original edition (with the fanfare at the end of the first movement), and not the same as this one:



Which is the 1890 (Haas) revision.
I have heard this one, and don't like it, at least as far as I can recall.

It looks like I'll have to listen to all (or most) of them to get a better idea lmao. Deezer does have all the extant volumes of the edition, although of course everything is just tagged as "III. Andante moderato" and so on, but I think I know all this music well enough to figure out what everything is.

Offline Jo498

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #16077 on: February 23, 2021, 01:55:49 AM »
I think that this is the 1990 recording. Hänssler mostly re-issued older recordings or made som of music Gielen had not recorded for Intercord. There are a few exceptions, e.g. Mahler's 9th was recorded twice (and they got another live recording or two for some box).

Of course, when I first got some of these recordings 20-30 years ago, I had heard at most another recording or two of the music (or none) and there was also a far smaller range available. So the fastish and lean Bruckner 7 was really different from the Jochum or Karajan or Giulini one had heard before, unless one knew the old Rosbaud or a similar recording. Even the Beethoven from the early/mid 90s was the first on modern instruments since Scherchen and Leibowitz that was close to the metronome markings. (The rather dry Eroica from Cincinnati is still older and used to be a kind of special recommendation.) This has completely changed with half a dozen or so of such fast and lean modern instrument Beethoven cycles.

Anyway, I'd still recommend first Bruckner 5 and 7 and of Mahler 7 and 9 (either one, the earlier from before/around 1990 probably more distinctive but in rather dry sound).

One can also cross-check some information on discogs to exclude the odd recordings only included in the recent boxes and never issued before.

E.g. this Bruckner 8th is the one from 1990, already on Intercord.
https://www.discogs.com/de/Anton-Bruckner-Morton-Feldman-SWR-Sinfonieorchester-Baden-Baden-Und-Freiburg-Michael-Gielen-Symphony/release/1874970
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline DavidW

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #16078 on: February 23, 2021, 10:06:45 AM »
I just noticed that the pictures show Gielen in attire ranging from tux to wrinkled t-shirt! :laugh:

Offline T. D.

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #16079 on: March 05, 2021, 02:23:35 AM »


The SQ would be a duplication (I have recordings with LaSalle Q), but there are 3 other CDs of music.