Recordings That You Are Considering

[Papy Oli]

Thank you John, Thank you Daverz.

The Plasson is hard to find indeed. I'll stream or search by his releases of interest (I already have his twofer of Fauré recordings, with mixed results, on first listen only though).

[Biffo]

Any particular views on those 3 sets please ?

 

I own all three sets.

For me the Martinon is by far the best, I agree that you should try his complete Chicago recordings from Sony.

The Jordan set contains a few relative rarities but I can't say I found anything outstanding in the familiar stuff (Debussy, Ravel etc).

The Fremaux set is more varied but I didn't find anything in it that I didn't have a better recording (more interesting to me) of.

In retrospect I am reasonably happy I bought the Jordan and Fremaux set, they were enjoyable to work through but it is Martinon I return to.

[Papy Oli]

I own all three sets.

For me the Martinon is by far the best, I agree that you should try his complete Chicago recordings from Sony.

The Jordan set contains a few relative rarities but I can't say I found anything outstanding in the familiar stuff (Debussy, Ravel etc).

The Fremaux set is more varied but I didn't find anything in it that I didn't have a better recording (more interesting to me) of.

In retrospect I am reasonably happy I bought the Jordan and Fremaux set, they were enjoyable to work through but it is Martinon I return to.

Thank you Biffo.

(Completely unrelated side point: I have learned in our friends & family zoom quiz on Monday night that Biffo was the name of a bear character in Beano. I'll associate that with you from now on and maybe I'll remember it in the future for an extra point    Was that your inspiration for forum name ?)   

[Biffo]

Thank you Biffo.

(Completely unrelated side point: I have learned in our friends & family zoom quiz on Monday night that Biffo was the name of a bear character in Beano. I'll associate that with you from now on and maybe I'll remember it in the future for an extra point    Was that your inspiration for forum name ?)   

No, a completely different bear; I had forgotten all about the Beano and hardly ever read it.

[Todd]

Claire Huangci goes for the Liszt transcription.  Streaming only, it seems.  Hmm.



And somehow I missed her release as part of an ensemble.

[Florestan]

If I like Wolf's Lieder, would I like Webern's as well? Which one of these would you recommend?

[Florestan]

Trio Machi-
iavelli

Spllenig si ineedd hdar. 

[Mandryka]

If I like Wolf's Lieder, would I like Webern's as well? Which one of these would you recommend?

Give me a bit of time, I'll try and hear them tomorrow and comment. There's also this, you should be able to find samples because it's streaming

[Irons]

Any thoughts on Ernst Toch?

[Brian]

Any thoughts on Ernst Toch?

The composer who, as a teacher in his later years, dismissively told a teenage André Previn, "You have no talent." Previn claims he responded "f*** you" and walked out of the private lesson.

[Mirror Image]

Any thoughts on Ernst Toch?

A composer I've been meaning to explore myself. I've got his set of symphonies on CPO, but I'd like to get more of his chamber music which I heard is more consistently good than his symphonic music.

[Irons]

A composer I've been meaning to explore myself. I've got his set of symphonies on CPO, but I'd like to get more of his chamber music which I heard is more consistently good than his symphonic music.

I have the 6th String Quartet on order (along with the 11th I think). Listened to the first movement on YT which I liked.

[Mandryka]

If I like Wolf's Lieder, would I like Webern's as well? Which one of these would you recommend?

When Dorow sings the early songs, which I guess is your main interest, she is much more romantic than Oelze - she projects and phrases more like a lieder singer would sing Wagner or Liszt. Her timbre is more rich, more colourful.

You know what, if you got the Dorow I think she would turn you on to the later songs too. She's that good. She locates the later songs in the tradition of late romantic expressionism.  Listening to her this morning, I became very aware of the link from Webern to Eisler and Rihm.

[MusicTurner]

Webern's songs are stylistically extremely diverse. I actually like the Naxos realease with a Russian singer (has some accent). A beautiful voice, and fine sound, IMO. I also have the Oelze, and some others (both Boulez boxes).

[Florestan]

When Dorow sings the early songs, which I guess is your main interest, she is much more romantic than Oelze - she projects and phrases more like a lieder singer would sing Wagner or Liszt. Her timbre is more rich, more colourful.

You know what, if you got the Dorow I think she would turn you on to the later songs too. She's that good. She locates the later songs in the tradition of late romantic expressionism.  Listening to her this morning, I became very aware of the link from Webern to Eisler and Rihm.

Webern's songs are stylistically extremely diverse. I actually like the Naxos realease with a Russian singer (has some accent). A beautiful voice, and fine sound, IMO. I also have the Oelze, and some others (both Boulez boxes).

Thank you, guys. See the Purchases thread.

[vers la flamme]

Deciding between these two. Both are very cheap, and both look great. I don't have a Dvorák cycle in my collection at all.

[Mirror Image]

Deciding between these two. Both are very cheap, and both look great. I don't have a Dvorák cycle in my collection at all.

Of those two, I'd go with Pešek.

[Brahmsian]

Deciding between these two. Both are very cheap, and both look great. I don't have a Dvorák cycle in my collection at all.

I have and love the Pesek set. Especially the 4th, my favourite Dvořák symphony. 

[Brian]

Suitner without a doubt for me.

I'll go into a little more detail as I spent much of January listening to these box sets.

Suitner is generally faster and more exciting. He omits repeats in the first two symphonies so they are around 45 minutes rather than 55. There are big differences especially in 3 and 4, Suitner is 2 minutes faster in the first movement alone of 3, for example. There is not really a question of an "authentic Czech sound" with either box, because Suitner's orchestra is German and Pešek's better orchestra is British. (The Czech Philharmonic plays some in the Pešek box, but this is the 1990s Czech Philharmonic, not the 60s-70s version, so it sounds much more international and less traditional.)

There are some really distinctive, unforgettable moments in the Suitner performances, such as the coda of the first movement of 8, where he doubles the tempo and is absolutely thrilling. Pešek's performances are much more "normal" and conventional. You may well like them a lot if you enjoy performances that are on the slower side or more dignified. (The funeral march in 3 is stately and Elgarian vs. the absolute maniacal hysteria in Rowicki.) But the andante first movement of 4 is unforgivable for me. (Again Suitner is 2-3 minutes faster. The next three movements are really good though! Great scherzo energy.)

There are certainly very nice things in the Pešek cycle, he is very good in 5 and 6, and a lot of generous couplings including overtures and the Czech Suite. The presentation of the box is also much nicer than the Brilliant plastic case, which is easily breakable. But Suitner's performances are top-tier, especially maybe the best 3 and 8 ever, whereas I would only recommend Pešek if you are a serious Dvorak superfan who already has Kertesz, Suitner, and maybe Rowicki and want to hear a lower-energy version. Even then, Neumann is a good lower-energy conductor who has the Czech Philharmonic in its more older-fashioned sound with more distinctive old woodwind instruments.

TLDR: Depends if you like fast exciting readings or slow calm readings.

EDIT: I just now saw that you do not have any Dvorak symphony cycle at all. In this case I would suggest looking for the recent cheap Decca reissue of Kertesz, and if it is unavailable, Suitner or Rowicki. Kubelik is very good but in the $35 range.

[Mirror Image]

Suitner without a doubt for me.

I'll go into a little more detail as I spent much of January listening to these box sets.

Suitner is generally faster and more exciting. He omits repeats in the first two symphonies so they are around 45 minutes rather than 55. There are big differences especially in 3 and 4, Suitner is 2 minutes faster in the first movement alone of 3, for example. There is not really a question of an "authentic Czech sound" with either box, because Suitner's orchestra is German and Pešek's better orchestra is British. (The Czech Philharmonic plays some in the Pešek box, but this is the 1990s Czech Philharmonic, not the 60s-70s version, so it sounds much more international and less traditional.)

There are some really distinctive, unforgettable moments in the Suitner performances, such as the coda of the first movement of 8, where he doubles the tempo and is absolutely thrilling. Pešek's performances are much more "normal" and conventional. You may well like them a lot if you enjoy performances that are on the slower side or more dignified. (The funeral march in 3 is stately and Elgarian vs. the absolute maniacal hysteria in Rowicki.) But the andante first movement of 4 is unforgivable for me. (The next three movements are really good though! Great scherzo energy.)

There are certainly very nice things in the Pešek cycle, he is very good in 5 and 6, and a lot of generous couplings including overtures and the Czech Suite. The presentation of the box is also much nicer than the Brilliant plastic case, which is easily breakable. But Suitner's performances are top-tier, especially maybe the best 3 and 8 ever, whereas I would only recommend Pešek if you are a serious Dvorak superfan who already has Kertesz, Suitner, and maybe Rowicki and want to hear a lower-energy version. Even then, Neumann is a good lower-energy conductor who has the Czech Philharmonic in its more older-fashioned sound with more distinctive old woodwind instruments.

EDIT: I just now saw that you do not have any Dvorak symphony cycle at all. In this case I would suggest looking for the recent cheap Decca reissue of Kertesz, and if it is unavailable, Suitner or Rowicki. Kubelik is very good but in the $35 range.

Interesting. I thought Suitner was low energy and just not the right conductor for this music. Neumann isn't a low energy conductor at all, especially his earlier cycle which is his better one of the two he's recorded. I'd say Kertész, Neumann (1st cycle) and Kubelik are the way to go in Dvořák's symphonic music.