Author Topic: Recordings That You Are Considering  (Read 2268740 times)

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Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #16140 on: April 12, 2021, 06:57:59 AM »
Sibelius:


I’m surprised you never went for those Sibelius Edition box sets on BIS, Jeffrey. They’re all worth their weight in gold. There is some less interesting music within their series, but the discoveries I made have more than made up for any kind of disappointment I experienced.
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Offline vandermolen

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #16141 on: April 12, 2021, 07:39:32 AM »
I’m surprised you never went for those Sibelius Edition box sets on BIS, Jeffrey. They’re all worth their weight in gold. There is some less interesting music within their series, but the discoveries I made have more than made up for any kind of disappointment I experienced.

I especially like 'Vaino's Song' John, which I've played over and over again since coming across it in the Erato set which I have recently acquired, and I wanted to hear another recording of it and liked the programme on the Bis set. Vainon's Song reminded me of a particularly 'catchy' section of the Complete Karelia Music on Ondine.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2021, 09:20:07 PM by vandermolen »
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Offline North Star

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #16142 on: April 12, 2021, 08:29:20 AM »

I especially like 'Vainon's Song' John, which I've played over and over again since coming across it in the Erato set which I have recently acquired, and I wanted to hear another recording of it and liked the programme on the Bis set. Vainon's Song reminded me of a particularly 'catchy' section of the Complete Karelia Music on Ondine.

Väinön is the possessive/genetive of Väinö (short of Väinämöinen of Kalevala), so it's either Väinön Virsi or Väinö's Song, but never Väinön's.

The Luonnotar with Juntunen is very fine for sure, and Vänskä does a great job with this music in general.
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Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #16143 on: April 12, 2021, 08:32:25 AM »

I especially like 'Vainon's Song' John, which I've played over and over again since coming across it in the Erato set which I have recently acquired, and I wanted to hear another recording of it and liked the programme on the Bis set. Vainon's Song reminded me of a particularly 'catchy' section of the Complete Karelia Music on Ondine.

Very cool. I’ll have to revisit this piece you’re talking about at some point.
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Offline vandermolen

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #16144 on: April 12, 2021, 09:28:37 PM »
Väinön is the possessive/genetive of Väinö (short of Väinämöinen of Kalevala), so it's either Väinön Virsi or Väinö's Song, but never Väinön's.

The Luonnotar with Juntunen is very fine for sure, and Vänskä does a great job with this music in general.
Therefore it's spelt wrong on the back of the Erato box as well? I've corrected my spelling above.
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Offline Madiel

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #16145 on: April 13, 2021, 12:55:53 AM »
The Luonnotar with Juntunen is very fine for sure

Agreed. Which is why I was a bit annoyed that the box of the Sibelius Edition I went for (vocal music with orchestra) uses a different version. Juntunen appears in the tone poems box, but in the vocal music box it's Häggander instead - she's decent, but Juntunen is better.
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Offline hvbias

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #16146 on: April 15, 2021, 12:26:39 PM »
I've been in a Mozart Piano Concerto mood lately (Peter Serkin and the oldies, Gulda, Fliesher, etc), I was looking at Brautigam in 24 and 25, here is Hurwitz's review: https://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-16185/

Is it really that bad ??? Is Youtube audio not letting me hear what he talking about or are my expectations just in reality for what a chamber orchestra is expected to do?

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #16147 on: April 15, 2021, 12:42:35 PM »
Hurwitz is irrational/deranged when it comes to period instruments and period-informed performances. I do think Willens has some annoying mannerisms as a conductor (and clearly his letter to Hurwitz is classless and trashy), but the short answer is, DH does not like the sounds of the instruments or the size of the orchestra, and if you do like the sounds and the size, you can safely ignore his opinion.

Offline hvbias

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #16148 on: April 15, 2021, 01:07:31 PM »
Hurwitz is irrational/deranged when it comes to period instruments and period-informed performances. I do think Willens has some annoying mannerisms as a conductor (and clearly his letter to Hurwitz is classless and trashy), but the short answer is, DH does not like the sounds of the instruments or the size of the orchestra, and if you do like the sounds and the size, you can safely ignore his opinion.

No argument about that message to him, so unsavory I didn't want to bring it up.

He did recommend the Malcom Bilson cycle, which is why I was wondering about his opinion on this. My memory is really fuzzy on the Bilson cycle.

Online Que

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #16149 on: April 16, 2021, 12:12:30 AM »
Hurwitz is irrational/deranged when it comes to period instruments and period-informed performances. I do think Willens has some annoying mannerisms as a conductor (and clearly his letter to Hurwitz is classless and trashy), but the short answer is, DH does not like the sounds of the instruments or the size of the orchestra, and if you do like the sounds and the size, you can safely ignore his opinion.

True!  :D

And I absolutely have no issue with anyone that dislikes period performances, but why does he keep reviewing them?  ???

Offline Traverso

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #16150 on: April 16, 2021, 02:58:38 AM »
True!  :D

And I absolutely have no issue with anyone that dislikes period performances, but why does he keep reviewing them?  ???

He very much likes the Haydn symphonies with Brüggen  :)

Offline DavidW

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #16151 on: April 16, 2021, 03:47:16 AM »
He very much likes the Haydn symphonies with Brüggen  :)

And the Pinnock Storm and Stress set.

Offline OrchestralNut

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #16152 on: April 16, 2021, 03:51:35 AM »
True!  :D

And I absolutely have no issue with anyone that dislikes period performances, but why does he keep reviewing them?  ???

I think it is an over generalization that David Hurwitz despises and poo-poos period instruments and historically informed performance.  He has praised several of them.  Especially in the Mozart symphonies and Haydn string quartets, as an example.

Offline DavidW

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #16153 on: April 16, 2021, 03:56:49 AM »
I think it is an over generalization that David Hurwitz despises and poo-poos period instruments and historically informed performance.  He has praised several of them.  Especially in the Mozart symphonies and Haydn string quartets, as an example.

But he has vehemently and personally and crudely attacked many period style performers, and let's not forget that.  He is not exactly setting a standard of impartial professionalism here.

Offline OrchestralNut

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #16154 on: April 16, 2021, 04:03:37 AM »
But he has vehemently and personally and crudely attacked many period style performers, and let's not forget that.  He is not exactly setting a standard of impartial professionalism here.

One could debate that he is justified in his criticism of Roger Norrington.

He (Hurwitz) feels like he has concrete and verifiable evidence to justify calling Roger Norrington a charlatan. I'm personally not saying he is right about it, just that I don't think Hurwitz thinks his cristism is unjustifiable. In his (Hurwitz) mind, it is backed up by actual evidence.

However, I don't want to derail this thread any longer. Perhaps this whole bit of conversation can be moved over to the Hurwitz thread.  :)

Offline Madiel

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #16155 on: April 16, 2021, 04:05:36 AM »
But he has vehemently and personally and crudely attacked many period style performers, and let's not forget that.  He is not exactly setting a standard of impartial professionalism here.

"Impartial professionalism" does not consist of assuming that everything put in front of you is good.

That fallacy is how we got "balance" in journalism.

EDIT: See also... I used to listen to a lot of Christian pop music at one point. I knew Christians who treated it as all beyond criticism because it was Christian pop music, when in fact a heck of a lot of it was shoddy work that wouldn't have seen the light of day but for being Christian. But some of it was good pop music.

Which is my way of saying it's entirely possible that some period style performers might be getting more airtime because period style performance is a sought-after label, not because they actually belong in the highest echelon of performers.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2021, 04:12:44 AM by Madiel »
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Online Brian

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #16156 on: April 16, 2021, 04:16:26 AM »
Which is my way of saying it's entirely possible that some period style performers might be getting more airtime because period style performance is a sought-after label, not because they actually belong in the highest echelon of performers.
I think this is a pretty good point. If you're not an interesting artist and you play on modern instruments, you're boring; if you're not an interesting artist but you play an 1826 fortepiano, at least there is something that collectors will like about you and make them willing to accept your shortcomings.

Offline DavidW

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #16157 on: April 16, 2021, 04:51:11 AM »
"Impartial professionalism" does not consist of assuming that everything put in front of you is good.

But I never said that any critic has to only find good in recordings, that is a ridiculous conclusion on your part.  He personally attacks musicians as just performing for the money or just being hacks which is far from giving a negative review to a performance due to the artistic merit.  He also repeatedly writes articles attacking particular musicians or the movement as a whole.  That is highly biased and unprofessional.

I have no problem with negative reviews, I value them.  But you clearly reached FAR BEYOND what I said with your very dubious connection to "balanced journalism." 




Offline DavidW

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #16158 on: April 16, 2021, 04:53:29 AM »
I think this is a pretty good point.

But if you actually listen to period performances then you know that it is a bad point.  They are frequently only released on small labels and go out of print quickly.  Even well recognized artists might have their works even of major composers just vanish.  They are not receiving more air time no matter what DH or Madiel says to the contrary.

Offline Madiel

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Re: Recordings That You Are Considering
« Reply #16159 on: April 16, 2021, 05:03:30 AM »
He personally attacks musicians as just performing for the money or just being hacks which is far from giving a negative review to a performance due to the artistic merit.

I genuinely do not understand the distinction you are trying to make. As far as I can see the first is just a different way of expressing the same conclusion that the performance isn't any good. What's the difference between being a hack and not giving good performances?
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