Frustrated/bored with GMG

[Don]

Most people NEVER read scores.

You're probably correct, but that does not change the fact that complexity comes from the score, not your listening experience.

[71 dB]

You're probably correct, but that does not change the fact that complexity comes from the score, not your listening experience.

In that case listening experience must be enhanced. How could we hear all that complexity?

[greg]

I don't think I am rich enough to buy scores. How many of them do you have? 1000? 10000? How many million dollars have you spend on them?

well, after IMSLP, I have a million. 
in book form, you can get Dover scores pretty cheap.......

but modern scores can be excessively expensive 

[(poco) Sforzando]

Most people NEVER read scores. That means scores do not have significance for most people. That doesn not mean scores are useless, they have enormous significance for certain people, just not to me.

This has already been asked and answered. Do you pay absolutely no attention to anything anyone tells you?

[BachQ]

This has already been asked and answered. Do you pay absolutely no attention to anything anyone tells you?

[71 dB]

I have to say many of you have wrote weird and unrespectful comments. Luckily I have learned to ignore. Makes life easier. 

[springrite]

Luckily I have learned to ignore.

This one thing you have allegedly learned is something the rest of this forum need to learn.

[Gustav]

Luckily I have learned to ignore. Makes life easier. 

you have been ignoring all your life, i suppose, ignorance IS bliss after all, why are all the people coming after you? Maybe there is something wrong with YOU? and not them? why are they writing "wierd" and "un(dis)respectful" comments? They don't do it to other people,  why only to you?

[(poco) Sforzando]

This one thing you have allegedly learned is something the rest of this forum need to learn.

Aye. It is rather difficult to have a productive conversation with someone who ignores everything everyone says to him when in fact they all would be better off ignoring everything he says to them.

[paulb]

Paul's position, insofar as I understand it (and I'm not sure I do, because he apparently likes Bach, Wagner, and Mozart while turning his back on Beethoven, Chopin, and Brahms) seems to be that most established classical music doesn't confront you with anything that matters in terms of our insane modern existence; instead, music such as Chopin's is a narcotic escape into in an irrelevant fantasy world. Add to this a feeling (like 71 dB's) that the vast majority of music lovers are spineless dupes, unable to think for themselves and hoodwinked by "academic" traditionalists whom they're too gullible to resist; and I think you've got most of the picture.

close to my POV
Chopin is like the Royal Grandens, beautifully sculptured and manicured. Nice for a  one sunday visit.
Lovely to stroll among.
After that its a  "been there done that".

Sure Ravel and Debussy adored Chopin and both owe a  huge debt to the master.
But for me in the 21st C, Chopin holds little interest. Lots of neatly arranged beautifully strung notes. Thats not a  escape, a  *narcotic*, thats the real mundane world.
What is a  transcending for me is the music like Schnittke, even much of Wagner holds this *cure for the modern evils*.
The old romantics just are like old wine skins, which does not capture the spirits that wish to enter into the 21st century.
Only a  few are given the call to voice the new.
Never the many. This is why one composer who speaks the unspeakable, holds more value to me that *a thousand others* who speak of mundane things.
Music come from basically 2 sources, there are the composers of ego, and those of genius. Those of genius from long ago, are reborn in the new composers in the late 20th C. IOW Shostakovich is reborn in Schnittke. Sibelius is reborn in Pettersson.

71 db is onto something and we should nurture his imaginations, not stifle his thoughts.
He has something to teach you guys.

btw I do not know the music of Elgar, and most likely will not seek it out.
I know he wrote a  good cello concerto,.
But I already found a  *good* cello concerto by Schnittke.

[(poco) Sforzando]

71 db is onto something and we should nurture his imaginations, not stifle his thoughts.
He has something to teach you guys.

Specifically, what?

btw I do not know the music of Elgar, and most likely will not seek it out.
I know he wrote a  good cello concerto,.
But I already found a  *good* cello concerto by Schnittke.

There can't be more than one.

[Mark]

And still the madness persists. In stereo now, apparently ...

[paulb]

Specifically, what?

I know specifically the attiude 71 has run into on this forum.
Bigotry is not limited to religious fanatics.

[Gustav]

I know specifically the attiude 71 has run into on this forum.
Bigotry is not limited to religious fanatics.

Bigotry, wow, that's specific alright!

[paulb]

Bigotry, wow, that's specific alright!

All right
there is some censoring going on here, at least attempts to do so,.
Repression.
Not far from what one might find in russia druing this century.
71 db senses things are not *right*, and others want to smash his views, ridicule his insights.
I've had this same experience on this site.
attitudes  on this forum to discuss creative art, should allow others to express however they feel, as long as its done respectfully.

can you point out one post from 71 which insults any composer or member here?
I sense others who are stronger than he, want to make themselves feel big and tall by pouncing on a  weaker member.
Not good among a  forum to discuss the creative art of music.

[PerfectWagnerite]

Richard Wagner's 6 great operas represent the greatest music of the entire 19th century.

WHich 6? Ring = 4, plus Tristan that's 5. You want to leave out Meistersinger or Parsifal?

[Gustav]

All right
there is some censoring going on here, at least attempts to do so,.

that's pure nonsense, and you know it! The moderators on this forum are actually quite lenient, and never step in until it's absolutely necessary. No one has the right to censor anyone's posts, you are just making this up to support your own argument.

or maybe you can prove me wrong, how about citing an incident when this alleged "attempts" at "censoring" happened?

Repression.

This is one of the most active classical forums on the internet (if not the most active), if there is so much this so called "repression" going on, how come people continue to participate in discussions on a daily basis?

Not far from what one might find in russia druing this century.

you really know how to blow things into absurd proportions don't you? I grew up with a saying, "if you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything at all", you admitted earlier that you don't know much, yet you talk talk and talk, and we all have to endure all the nonsense you have been dumping onto the forum, and now you side with 71db....

71 db senses things are not *right*, and others want to smash his views, ridicule his insights.
I've had this same experience on this site.

has it ever occurred to you that those "views" sounded more like "facts"?

I've had this same experience on this site.

no surprises there!

[(poco) Sforzando]

All right
there is some censoring going on here, at least attempts to do so,.
Repression.
Not far from what one might find in russia druing this century.

That's a little extreme. Far from "repression," both you and dB are "irrespressible." No one has sentenced either of you to the Gulag for liking Pettersson or Elgar.

[Iconito]

In that case listening experience must be enhanced. How could we hear all that complexity?

Following the score as you listen to the music! 

Look: Hearing is a very selective sense and depends a lot in concentration... Here's a silly little anecdote: I was watching a movie (a movie I'd seen several times) with captions for the hearing impaired turned on (for the first time... My hearing is OK, I was just... never mind, it's absolutely beside the point...) and in this scene I noticed a dog barking in the background that I'd never noticed before (I mean not before I saw the caption "DOG BARKING IN THE BACKGROUND") My point is: Chances are you WILL notice things you haven't noticed before if you see them printed on the page.

And you don't need to spend a lot of money buying scores: Just google "free scores". And if you don't know how to read a score, no problem: You can get tons of midi files for free (google "classical midi files"), open them with your favorite sequencing program, click "play" and see the notes flashing as the music goes... So you see there are not excuses for not letting your eyes help your ears.

[paulb]

WHich 6? Ring = 4, plus Tristan that's 5. You want to leave out Meistersinger or Parsifal?

That other great from Wagner would be , Parsifal, of course.
Miestersinger I am leaving out.
though i have not heard it, my hunch its from the *old school* and the libretto may not interest me in the way the other 6 hold my interest.

I will soon do a short review on 3 historic Ring cycles. I may have to change some of my opinions made last year on amazon. As well some comments on a  few historic Parsifal's and Tristan's.

I was refering to 71's comment made on his opening post , last summer. maybe things around here changed for him. he seemed like a  castaway, dejected, *rejected  by the elders*
If that is not the case then i withdraw some of my hasty  comments.

Can someone post one of 71's "tis so and thats that" comments.
Remember he is going against a   bulwark of old tradition and opinionated standards. The old guard always feels a threat by the new. Resentment perhaps...