Frustrated/bored with GMG

[Florestan]

I only seek out music that reflects the world, this epoch of 2008  as I see and understand, life is too short at 52 yrs of age,  to bother with any other forms.

I won't get into a debate about how relevant 19th century music is for our time. Just ask: do you find nothing pleasant, cheerful and lovely in this world? (Not that 19th century music was just that... I'm just curious).

[paulb]

I'm sorry if I offended all Beethoven fans. In fact Beethoven is one of my favorites too. I admire his string quartets a lot. But, I simply enjoy Elgar's orchestral music more than that of Beethoven. Elgar is in my opinion timbrally superior. Timbral dimension comes mostly from orchestraltion so that's why I feel Elgar (and many other late romantics) is superior in orchestration. Just keep in mind I keep Beethoven in high esteem too.

My message has been: "Elgar is a brilliant composer, take his music seriously and give him a chance". I just have used very bad expressions and I recret that. What's worse, some "anti-Elgarians" have been able to agitate me to say stupid things. I hope I have learned to avoid this from now on. 

OH no, now you go and make me look the fool.
I persoanlly have no time for Elgar. Glad you like him. But eventually you may need to move on to late 20th C music.

And now you say Beethoven is one of your super favs.

Oh brother i came in support of a  Beethovenian . I thought i'd never see the day which would draw me to support a  Beethovenian.

I thought you were a progressive, a  challenger to the staus quo.
Good grief.

[greg]

OH no, now you go and make me look the fool.
I persoanlly have no time for Elgar. Glad you like him. But eventually you may need to move on to late 20th C music.

And now you say Beethoven is one of your super favs.

Oh brother i came in support of a  Beethovenian . I thought i'd never see the day which would draw me to support a  Beethovenian.

I thought you were a progressive, a  challenger to the staus quo.
Good grief.

I don't care for Beethoven much either, but "good grief", Paul 

[(poco) Sforzando]

I'm sorry if I offended all Beethoven fans. In fact Beethoven is one of my favorites too. I admire his string quartets a lot. But, I simply enjoy Elgar's orchestral music more than that of Beethoven. Elgar is in my opinion timbrally superior. Timbral dimension comes mostly from orchestraltion so that's why I feel Elgar (and many other late romantics) is superior in orchestration. Just keep in mind I keep Beethoven in high esteem too.

My message has been: "Elgar is a brilliant composer, take his music seriously and give him a chance". I just have used very bad expressions and I recret that. What's worse, some "anti-Elgarians" have been able to agitate me to say stupid things. I hope I have learned to avoid this from now on. 

That's a good reply. Seriously - I mean it. Of course Elgar's music reveals a more brilliant color palette than Beethoven's (which is not to say Beethoven cannot orchestrate). You don't have to bend backwards apologizing, but a more moderate approach like this is more likely to win people over.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Oh brother i came in support of a  Beethovenian . I thought i'd never see the day which would draw me to support a  Beethovenian.

Poor Paul. Such egg on his face. 

[Cato]

How can anyone be bored with GMG or frustrated, when you have someone who lionizes both Elgar and Tangerine Dream?   

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Sorcerer.png

Perhaps we need more cowbell, and less blood in our alcohol systems, but otherwise, a fun place!

[BachQ]

Elgar is in my opinion timbrally superior. Timbral dimension comes mostly from orchestraltion so that's why I feel Elgar (and many other late romantics) is superior in orchestration.

King of Trolls, Vol.87 no. 154986

[lukeottevanger]

OH no, now you go and make me look the fool.

......no, Luke, don't....

[BachQ]

......no, Luke, don't....

[paulb]

I won't get into a debate about how relevant 19th century music is for our time. Just ask: do you find nothing pleasant, cheerful and lovely in this world? (Not that 19th century music was just that... I'm just curious).

I can't answer that qwuestion without further incriminating myself to look even more weird and oddball that i appear to be.
Let me just say I'd find good company among some american indians, some not all, the wise ones I'd seek company with.
Cheerful about this world? I take the 5th  
But as the great Lao Tzu teaches, all is compensated when seen by the light of a  higher reasoning power. Gonsis is what the greeks call this understanding.
Enter in Pettersson and Schnittke. God never totally abandons The Man.
Though Man, through blindness,  does reject The Man.

Listen to Schnittke's  3 sacred choral works. That to me is one of the beauties of this world. The balance in the scales for The Good. IOW the mountainous evil is far greater in terms of quantity on the scale, yet  the precious jems of good has the greater potency.

[karlhenning]

So STOP reading between the lines, guys.

It's a fair cop.

[paulb]

That's a good reply. Seriously - I mean it. Of course Elgar's music reveals a more brilliant color palette than Beethoven's (which is not to say Beethoven cannot orchestrate). You don't have to bend backwards apologizing, but a more moderate approach like this is more likely to win people over.

This is a  attitude that should be seen more of here. Helping to clarify 71's position and ideas.

[greg]

This is a  attitude that should be seen more of here. Helping to clarify 71's position and ideas.

he does need clarification.......

[Ephemerid]

I promise you, in the future you will not hold this same opinion, these feelings for Beethoven will fade and be replaced by stronger emotional attachment for Debussy.
I promise you in the distant future this will happen.
I'm no psychic , but have a  strong intuition.

Well, if anything, my listening has matured over the years and my appreciation for Beethoven has only increased -- in fact, overall, my appreciation for a lot of composers have only deepened.  But I love Beethoven as Beethoven, I love Debussy as Debussy.  I, as a listener, see no need to make it a game of one-upmanship, a sort of musical gunslinging duel.  Quite frankly, I find that boring, pointless, and unfulfilling.  My enjoyment of any composer is based on their own merits, not based on how they compare to other composers.  

I don't think in terms of a hierarchy that determines my listening habits-- if I did I would exclude so much and it would be my loss.  I want to mature in my listening habits, and that means broadening them and deepening them-- not excluding others.  That's the sort of thing I did when I was younger, and more immature.  

I'm too greedy-- I want it all!  

[karlhenning]

Gonsis is what the greeks call this understanding.

I thought it was what Hunter Thompson called his journalism?

[71 dB]

I persoanlly have no time for Elgar. Glad you like him. But eventually you may need to move on to late 20th C music.

Late 20th century music? I have tons of that! Recently I have been into Tangerine Dream. 

[paulb]

Indeed. 71 never says anything that would lead you to think he considers Elgar the greatest of composers. Nothing whatever. Why, the proof is revealed in a 5-minute search from his very posts:


So STOP reading between the lines, guys.

Yes well give the guy a  chance to mature and form new attitudes, new lines of thought as he winds his way down the challenging paths of adventures in classical music.
We all remember our first few yrs in CM and look at where we are at today, decades later. We are not the same lsiteners. We are *born anew*.
I know much of what i said yrs ago may not reflect some of my attitudes today.
i know where i was wrong in many of my sarcasms and joltings towards music that does not appeal.
I admit many of my postings were hasty and brash. We can all learn.
i think what drove me to say some of the things I did, was the overwhelming force I felt from the conservative group. The days of the LP shops, with the store clerks  pushing composers on me which were not what I was truly after. My seekings went in vain. These high tech days offer much greater ability to seek and find what you are truly after.
Clips, amazon, Youtube, forums like GMG, all go into making the journey a  more sure adventure.

[(poco) Sforzando]

How can anyone be bored with GMG or frustrated, when you have someone who lionizes both Elgar and Tangerine Dream?   

[(poco) Sforzando]

I admit many of my postings were hasty and brash. We can all learn.

If and when you rediscover Beethoven and Brahms, please let us know.

[paulb]

Late 20th century music? I have tons of that! Recently I have been into Tangerine Dream. 

the other night while driving i turned on the NPR staion, classical and jazz is the usual fare.
they had *new age/space music*, Not sure the group, maybe Tangerine Dream.
Anyway sounded cool for a  moment, even possiblity interesting, but i resisted and shut if off. I bought a  few cds yrs ago, interesting back then but now its a  style i avoid strongly.
I approach the listening mind as a  channel, and wish to allow only the music that I believe should   flow through.

But as you are younger, maybe TD  and other music is just right for you at this phase in life.