Verdi vs. Wagner

[Winky Willy]

Sorry, there being no third option my vote must not be cast. Wagner wrote a great deal more interminably boring stuff than Verdi, but Wagner's best is on an entirely different and elevated plane. (In my opinion, of course)

[Mirror Image]

My vote goes to Wagner. I don't like Verdi at all.

[eyeresist]

Yeah, Verdi just rubs me the wrong way. "Superficial", as someone above said. And Wagner may have terrible quarter hours, but his tunes are supreme!

I thought that this must be the easiest poll ever, voted - and then saw the result   

   

[AaronSF]

Wagner.  No contest.  For me Verdi is musical soap opera.  And way too much ump-pah-pah, ump-pah-pah.

[Operafreak]

Verdi  of course,Wagner is for pompous selfself-appointed  intellectuels .

[Mirror Image]

Verdi  of course,Wagner is for pompous selfself-appointed  intellectuels .

I'm certainly proud to be a pompous, self-appointed intellectual.

[Operafreak]

I'm certainly proud to be a pompous, self-appointed intellectual.

[71 dB]

Overall I am not an opera fanatic myself, but I do enjoy the operas of Puccini (who for me is somehow an "Italian Elgar") and baroque operas by Handel and Rameau.

As for Wagner, I do like his music. At best is it damn fine, but his long operas feel heavy stuff to get through. Wagner's strength is of course his interesting forward-thinking harmony, but he also knew how to write great melodies and how to to use the orchestra. If there is a composer whose music works best when you select only the best parts it has to be Wagner.

As for Verdi, I have always struggled hard with his music. I have tried and tried because he is "THE KING OF ITALIAN OPERA", but it just doesn't work for me! I should analyse the music to be sure, but the problem seems to be how melody and harmony go together. I feel melody is everything for Verdi and harmony is kind of a necessity just as a canvas is needed to make a painting. This "flattens" the music of Verdi for me. It feels like he is force-feeding his melodies without trying to make them tasty with interesting harmonisation. Of course these are my impressions and I have not analysed his music. I could be wrong. However, in music feelings actually matter more than facts.

[André]

Overall I am not an opera fanatic myself, but I do enjoy the operas of Puccini (who for me is somehow an "Italian Elgar") and baroque operas by Handel and Rameau.

As for Wagner, I do like his music. At best is it damn fine, but his long operas feel heavy stuff to get through. Wagner's strength is of course his interesting forward-thinking harmony, but he also knew how to write great melodies and how to to use the orchestra. If there is a composer whose music works best when you select only the best parts it has to be Wagner.

As for Verdi, I have always struggled hard with his music. I have tried and tried because he is "THE KING OF ITALIAN OPERA", but it just doesn't work for me! I should analyse the music to be sure, but the problem seems to be how melody and harmony go together. I feel melody is everything for Verdi and harmony is kind of a necessity just as a canvas is needed to make a painting. This "flattens" the music of Verdi for me. It feels like he is force-feeding his melodies without trying to make them tasty with interesting harmonisation. Of course these are my impressions and I have not analysed his music. I could be wrong. However, in music feelings actually matter more than facts.

Interesting POV. True, Wagner reigns when it comes to harmonies, but Verdi does with melodies. But what about rythm ? Wagner is a most a-rythmic composer, his music almost pulseless at times. While both are very high on my list of greatest composers, my preference goes to the Italian. I find it useless to pit them against each other.

[Symphonic Addict]

Actually, I'd say Wagner overall. As a composer he was more revolutionary harmonically and in grandeur, in a really epic scope or ambition that makes sense through (The Ring). I've heard all of his operas at least once (except for the two early ones).

There is something about Verdi's use of percussion that kind of annoys me. I feel that there is too much bass-drum, triangle and cymbals in a good portion of his operas.

[DavidW]

Overall I am not an opera fanatic myself, but I do enjoy the operas of Puccini (who for me is somehow an "Italian Elgar") and baroque operas by Handel and Rameau.

I'm similar but my tops are Puccini, Handel, Mozart and occasionally Strauss.  I love bloody chucks of Wagner but that is about it.

[Florestan]

Verdi by several miles. Except some orchestral chunks, Wagner bores the hell out of me.

[ritter]

Yeah, I see, and Wagner isn't hummable anyway, right? 

Good evening, Andrei!

[LKB]

In Verdi l enjoy about five minutes of the Requiem, various bits of La Traviata, and rather larger bits of Otello.

In Wagner l enjoy... everything. 

[Mandryka]

Apples and oranges. Verdi was an opera composer and Wagner's post Lohengrin works are certainly and deliberately not operas, they are music dramas, stage consecration festival plays.

I can honestly say that if someone invited me, at their expense, to go and see a Verdi opera in, say, London, Paris, Rome or New York, other than Falstaff or Otello and possibly Don Carlos, I would probably go but with a certain reservation - not anticipating to enjoy the evening much. There was one other which I thought was OK, but I'm not sure which one - maybe Simon Boccanegra. Even Otello and Falstaff are a bit superficial. I mean, not much irony.

On the other hand Wagner is a creative genius, his works are a glimpse into the human condition as profound and enigmatic as Euripides's and Homer's. As such they have brought out the best from singers and directors. If anyone wants to invite me to Bayreuth, at their expense, PM me please. 

[Spotted Horses]

Even Otello and Falstaff are a bit superficial. I mean, not much irony.

I think Otello is Verdi's best Opera, in which he moves away from the orchestra as a huge guitar, towards more tone painting, etc. But the drama is a travesty of Shakespeare's play. In Shakespeare Iago sows doubt in Otello's mind by praising Desdemona's virtue and insisting she is not betraying him, in a way which seems to insinuate that it is not the case. Otello slowly drifts into madness. In the opera Otello just goes ape-shit.

[Jo498]

Sorry, there being no third option my vote must not be cast. Wagner wrote a great deal more interminably boring stuff than Verdi, but Wagner's best is on an entirely different and elevated plane. (In my opinion, of course)

This comes pretty close to my stance although I would not quite put the contrast so sharply. Wagner seems to have been the first and maybe only composer who despite writing almost only operas made them in such a "symphonic" style that he became as important for instrumental music as for opera. (There are of course composer who wrote both important instrumental music and opera, like Mozart or Janacek but I don't know of anyone else who did this only with operas.)

[Florestan]

I've often heard the argument that if one takes away the singing from Verdi's operas all that is left is an orchestral oom-pah-pah, while if one takes away the singing from Wagner's operas/musical dramas one is still left with great orchestral music. To me, though, this cuts exactly the other way and is evidence that Verdi is by far the superior composer because if one takes away the singing from operas one is left with no operas at all: the whole raison d'être of opera is precisely singing. I don't go to the opera to listen to symphonies or tone poems, I go there to hear singing.

Besides, Verdi's world is much more varied in terms of characters and much more humane and humanistic than Wagner's.

[Todd]

I've often heard the argument that if one takes away the singing from Verdi's operas all that is left is an orchestral oom-pah-pah

I've never heard or read this.  It certainly does not apply to Otello, Falstaff, or Don Carlos. 

Wagner is better though.

[Florestan]

I've never heard or read this. 

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