Started by M forever, July 07, 2007, 12:32:30 PM
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Quote from: M forever on July 07, 2007, 12:32:30 PMI think it's a little known fact that Strauss originally ended this tone poem with a very quiet ending, it just gets calmer and calmer and fades out. While he was working on writing out the full score, a friend convinced him that the ending should be a little more "heroic", so he added the final tutti outburst which you all know. Apparently, only the original ending is actually contained in the composer's autograph.
Quote from: Jezetha on July 09, 2007, 12:26:52 PMI agree with Mark G. Simon - Strauss's friends were right. This ending is very tepid, there is no tension there, it goes out like a candle.
Quote from: Jezetha on July 09, 2007, 12:26:52 PMFor a work on such a grand scale, with so many heroic and passionate passages, it's vital to keep that spirit alive until the last bar.
QuoteThat's *exactly* the idea of the last section. The "hero" quietly "extinguishes" in the end (...) like a flame that has burnt brightly and violently in the wind but the wind never managed to blow it out. It survived all that and in the end goes out quietly and calmly by itself.
Quote from: Mark G. Simon on July 09, 2007, 01:25:14 PMI think, in general, Heldenleben is too much beholden to its program at the expense of musical sense. I'm glad he at least got the ending right.
Quote from: Jezetha on July 09, 2007, 01:20:48 PMI know, I know. That's what the programme says. That's the difficulty - programmatic closure and musical closure are two things. The programme says 'composer retreats from world' but the compostion demands that the storm, stress and resolution are put inside the right frame. As you say: 'The End', which balances the stirring opening of the work. So we're agreed on that, I think!
QuoteDo you feel there is a need for some similar ending for the end of Mahler's 9th? I think not.
Quote from: M forever on July 09, 2007, 02:13:40 PMThat's probably only because you focus on it too much rather than appreciating the enormous complexity and inventiveness of the music itself.
Quote from: Mark G. Simon on July 09, 2007, 06:37:52 PMStrauss is just playing with his food, spinning out more and more music, simply because he can, not because he needs to.
Quote from: Jezetha on July 09, 2007, 02:40:20 PMPerhaps the grandiose ending of Heldenleben serves as a last reminder of the power and the struggle that was needed to reach so much tranquility? That's why it feels right, to me.
QuoteCould be. Or maybe it just sounds better to us because it's more bombastic, simple as that.
QuoteThe ending of "Heldenleben" really has nothing at all to do with the opening of "Zarathustra". Totally different notes and harmonic context.
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