Conducting With The Stars! -Season 1

[TheGSMoeller]

I've become a strong critic of conductors, not necessarily on recordings, but mostly with "live" performances. If you've ever performed in an orchestra, you realize that a large majority of the time during the performance your eyes are on the sheet music in front of you. During the rehearsals, the conductor will provide you with changes and notations to apply to your sheet music, hence the pencils on almost every musician's music stand. This is where the conductor really shines, in conveying the purpose and interpretation of the composers music into a live performance. I have not played professionally, but have many friends and family who have, and this is the feedback I often receive. From an audience member point of view, we want to not only hear, but feel the passion of the music throughout. And that is largely the responsibility of the conductor. Maybe I'm a bit of a naturalist, maybe it's the past-performer in me, but I've lately become an "allow the music to do the talking" type listener. But I find it incredibly distracting when a conductor is so active on the podium, it almost becomes more about the show, the visuals, "hey look at me!" when you know that most of the musicians aren't even looking at the conductor.
I've included seven examples, ranging from embarrassing for me to even watch to highly enjoyable, but wanted to offer a variety to allow feedback from other posters here.
Please include your thoughts and opinions. 


Emmanuelle Haïm
http://www.youtube.com/v/BgImv8KjKW8&list=UUtRkmSO4PrhJ4TzNOmFIwjw&index=5&feature=plcp

Yannick Nézet-Séguin
http://www.youtube.com/v/pK-rS6Uu8P4

Leopold Stokowski
http://www.youtube.com/v/qi_ngMfdQZU&feature=related

Gustavo Dudamel
http://www.youtube.com/v/Eo1KHr-b-CA

Marc Minkowski
http://www.youtube.com/v/Pvd4Rf4munw&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL362309F1EBFD4FF5

Pierre Boulez
http://www.youtube.com/v/WtAzaQ_fd-A&feature=related

Christian Thielemann
http://www.youtube.com/v/QMkic8cbJjI&feature=related

[Josquin des Prez]

I thought this thread was going to be about Stockhausen.

[mc ukrneal]

I don't like it when conductors (or players for that matter) overdo the theatrical movements. I found the bouncing hair to be the most distracting and wanted to take scissors to a few of them!

My quick reactions:
Haim - Love the musical performance, hate the acting performance (with honorable mention to the hair)
Yannick: meh
Stokowski - willful, but less distracting
Dudamel - Someone please smack him (he looks like he's having spasms, or is that ecstasy in front of the pope?)
Minkowski - Who knew he was a ballet dancer
Boulez - just a normal guy plying his trade
Thielman - Some robot moves

There are some exceptions to what I like:
Mravinsky - he rarely did anything distracting, but when he did, he looked so stern, concentrated and serious that you didn't take it as if he was doing anything strange
Bernstein - Sometimes he just couldn't hold back his joy (though sometimes he looks like he's acting)

[TheGSMoeller]

I don't like it when conductors (or players for that matter) overdo the theatrical movements. I found the bouncing hair to be the most distracting and wanted to take scissors to a few of them!

There are some exceptions to what I like:
Mravinsky - he rarely did anything distracting, but when he did, he looked so stern, concentrated and serious that you didn't take it as if he was doing anything strange
Bernstein - Sometimes he just couldn't hold back his joy (though sometimes he looks like he's acting)

Nice additions. "Joy" is certainly an emotion that can translate in different ways on a podium, Bernstein had his moments of both.

[Karl Henning]

I think a sock monkey at the podium could totally work.

[TheGSMoeller]

I think a sock monkey at the podium could totally work.

Haha, I conducted my high school band for my senior solo. I'll upload it (from VHS of course) if I could ever find it.

[Karl Henning]

Did you?  They let me conduct the high school chorus for the benediction of my class's commencement.  That was when the conducting bug bit me but good.

[Bulldog]

I liked the way Boulez handled himself with dignity and complete control.

The "Yannick" video was rather amusing with the Pope sitting like a rock.

[Szykneij]

When I saw the title of the thread, this was what I expected ...

[mc ukrneal]

Speaking of Mravinsky, I really enjoy this clip I found on youtube with him rehearsing Brahms Symphony 4. This is great conducting. About 1/3 to 1/2 the way through the clip is where the really interesting stuff begins. In part 2, the 5 min mark is pure delight, where he rehearses the brass.

http://www.youtube.com/v/aaqQL8poWkU&feature=related

[Sergeant Rock]

When I pay a hundred Euro or more for a ticket, the conductor better be busting some moves    I want choreography for my money 

Sarge

[Karl Henning]

(* chortle *)

[Mirror Image]

Edit: This post has been deleted twice by one of the moderators and I think I deserve an explanation as to why. It's a joke!

It wasn't by me, but it would have been if I had seen it first. I seem to recall reading somewhere that an essential element of 'joke' was that they were funny. It is hard to see the humor in hitting someone with a baseball bat. It doesn't fit in with a pratfall, for example as a way of having mild harm come to someone in a semi-violent manner. It is downright mean-spirited, actually. Let's get off on a less violent footing here and say that we don't like the work these two are doing, and try to give a cogent reason why this would be.

GB

[bhodges]

What Gurn said. I deleted the posts, which weren't funny.

Now back to constructive analysis of the clips originally posted.

--Bruce

[Mirror Image]

Dudamel - Someone please smack him (he looks like he's having spasms, or is that ecstasy in front of the pope?)

I have a complaint. How is it this post isn't advocating violence and my baseball bat comment is?

[TheGSMoeller]

When I saw the title of the thread, this was what I expected ...

I've actually seen the clip of Shaq conducting, it's humorous and you can tell he's having fun, but not at the expense of conductors, more of just enjoying the opportunity.

[Szykneij]

I've actually seen the clip of Shaq conducting, it's humorous and you can tell he's having fun, but not at the expense of conductors, more of just enjoying the opportunity.

He had his beat patterns down pat, so must have been well-coached for the event. (Too bad there wasn't a basketball coach who could have done the same for his free throw shooting.)   

[TheGSMoeller]

He had his beat patterns down pat, so must have been well-coached for the event. (Too bad there wasn't a basketball coach who could have done the same for his free throw shooting.)   

Nailed it! 

[Szykneij]

Haim - Love the musical performance, hate the acting performance (with honorable mention to the hair)

I agree. The over-the-top conducting was particularly inappropriate for Rameau. In the Baroque era, the harpsichord player would usually lead the ensemble with an occasional nod or wave, not by playing air-violin. Or the director would reservedly conduct with a staff a la Lully (watch your toes). I'm sure the Berlin Philharmonic would have sounded just as great (if not better) without a conductor on that piece. 

[Szykneij]

My quick reactions -

Haim - Too over-the-top. (see above.)

Yannick - My favorite of the group. In the wide angle shots, he seems as one with the orchestra. His movements blend with those of the players.

Stokowski - Unusually reserved for Leopold. I think the language barrier with the ensemble might have resulted in a more straight-forward approach.

Dudamel - Way too much too soon. I didn't watch the whole clip, but if he was that rapturous during the opening bars, I can't imagine what he was doing at the climaxes.

Minkowski - A better style for Rameau than Haim. Any unusual affectations were directed at the orchestra and probably not visible to the audience.

Boulez - With all those meter changes, he was primarily keeping time (and wisely so).

Thielemann - Would have liked to have seen if his style changed with the choral entrance.