Author Topic: Early (pre-Bach) Harpsichord Music  (Read 7439 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Archaic Torso of Apollo

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3429
  • Location: Chicagoland
Re: Early (pre-Bach) Harpsichord Music
« Reply #40 on: July 27, 2009, 04:09:29 AM »
erato & Spitvalve

Maybe I was bit harsh about the handles you use, though I don't know why people don't prefer to use their name, or a name, on internet forums- seems very defensive to me as though you're somehow hiding.

Why do you care what we call ourselves on this board?  ??? "Spitvalve" reflects the fact that I used to play the trombone.

I for one welcome imaginative monickers.
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

Offline The new erato

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 14764
Re: Early (pre-Bach) Harpsichord Music
« Reply #41 on: July 27, 2009, 10:25:03 AM »
erato & Spitvalve

Maybe I was bit harsh about the handles you use, though I don't know why people don't prefer to use their name, or a name, on internet forums- seems very defensive to me as though you're somehow hiding.

Anyway the above comments are pause for thought for me and have been levelled at me before: I am certainly interested in communication and discussion, but I guess I'm only going to get really involved with ideas I hadn't thought of and I feel are challenging. Maybe this is too conceited and I should be more receptive to all sorts of ideas beyond this, but I don't think so- I think the rest is garbage and that the likes of you two just want to take liberal relativist stances on everything, staying on fences as much as possible.
Yeah, it´s a typical liberal stance to think Dufay great.

Offline Archaic Torso of Apollo

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3429
  • Location: Chicagoland
Re: Early (pre-Bach) Harpsichord Music
« Reply #42 on: September 20, 2013, 07:36:36 AM »
Yeah, it´s a typical liberal stance to think Dufay great.

LOL. However, the curious thing is that I can see some sense in Sean's POV, even without buying into his dogmatic, narcissistic view of things. Having listened to a fair amount of these early keyboard composers in the meantime, I find that a lot of this music has an exploratory, unfocused feel, as if the composers were searching for the forms and rules that had not yet been created.

That said, at the moment I'd much rather listen to Byrd, Sweelinck, or Frescobaldi than to any Romantic or Classical era piano music. It's just more interesting and full of surprises, a product of that exploratory sense perhaps.
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

Offline (: premont :)

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 8868
Re: Early (pre-Bach) Harpsichord Music
« Reply #43 on: September 21, 2013, 03:19:19 PM »
as if the composers were searching for the forms and rules that had not yet been created.

A rather teleological view, which makes no sense. The early composers created their own forms and rules, which suited their needs for artistic expression. But when we listen to their music with our modern ears, we are because of our knowledge of the intervening history induced to hear an imaginary evolution. Listening to their music in a fair way, one has to "turn back the clock" and try to listen with unprejudiced ears. I think this can be achieved by training.
It's better to act today than to regret tomorrow.
(Mette Frederiksen)

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 14667
Re: Early (pre-Bach) Harpsichord Music
« Reply #44 on: September 21, 2013, 10:32:06 PM »
A rather teleological view, which makes no sense. The early composers created their own forms and rules, which suited their needs for artistic expression. But when we listen to their music with our modern ears, we are because of our knowledge of the intervening history induced to hear an imaginary evolution. Listening to their music in a fair way, one has to "turn back the clock" and try to listen with unprejudiced ears. I think this can be achieved by training.

The expression in philosophy was an "invisible hand explanation" -- as if some power is directing things towards some goal, but in fact there is no such power. Maybe no goal neither.

I'll just mention a pre Bach harpsichord recording which I like:

« Last Edit: September 22, 2013, 01:13:12 AM by Mandryka »
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline Archaic Torso of Apollo

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3429
  • Location: Chicagoland
Re: Early (pre-Bach) Harpsichord Music
« Reply #45 on: September 22, 2013, 07:22:39 AM »
A rather teleological view, which makes no sense. The early composers created their own forms and rules, which suited their needs for artistic expression. But when we listen to their music with our modern ears, we are because of our knowledge of the intervening history induced to hear an imaginary evolution. Listening to their music in a fair way, one has to "turn back the clock" and try to listen with unprejudiced ears. I think this can be achieved by training.

You are of course right; to a certain extent, we have to "un-hear" the following centuries of music to make sense of this material. But that is part of the fun.
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach