Early (pre-Bach) Harpsichord Music

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

erato & Spitvalve

Maybe I was bit harsh about the handles you use, though I don't know why people don't prefer to use their name, or a name, on internet forums- seems very defensive to me as though you're somehow hiding.

Why do you care what we call ourselves on this board?  "Spitvalve" reflects the fact that I used to play the trombone.

I for one welcome imaginative monickers.

[The new erato]

erato & Spitvalve

Maybe I was bit harsh about the handles you use, though I don't know why people don't prefer to use their name, or a name, on internet forums- seems very defensive to me as though you're somehow hiding.

Anyway the above comments are pause for thought for me and have been levelled at me before: I am certainly interested in communication and discussion, but I guess I'm only going to get really involved with ideas I hadn't thought of and I feel are challenging. Maybe this is too conceited and I should be more receptive to all sorts of ideas beyond this, but I don't think so- I think the rest is garbage and that the likes of you two just want to take liberal relativist stances on everything, staying on fences as much as possible.

Yeah, it´s a typical liberal stance to think Dufay great.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Yeah, it´s a typical liberal stance to think Dufay great.

LOL. However, the curious thing is that I can see some sense in Sean's POV, even without buying into his dogmatic, narcissistic view of things. Having listened to a fair amount of these early keyboard composers in the meantime, I find that a lot of this music has an exploratory, unfocused feel, as if the composers were searching for the forms and rules that had not yet been created.

That said, at the moment I'd much rather listen to Byrd, Sweelinck, or Frescobaldi than to any Romantic or Classical era piano music. It's just more interesting and full of surprises, a product of that exploratory sense perhaps.

[prémont]

as if the composers were searching for the forms and rules that had not yet been created.

A rather teleological view, which makes no sense. The early composers created their own forms and rules, which suited their needs for artistic expression. But when we listen to their music with our modern ears, we are because of our knowledge of the intervening history induced to hear an imaginary evolution. Listening to their music in a fair way, one has to "turn back the clock" and try to listen with unprejudiced ears. I think this can be achieved by training.

[Mandryka]

A rather teleological view, which makes no sense. The early composers created their own forms and rules, which suited their needs for artistic expression. But when we listen to their music with our modern ears, we are because of our knowledge of the intervening history induced to hear an imaginary evolution. Listening to their music in a fair way, one has to "turn back the clock" and try to listen with unprejudiced ears. I think this can be achieved by training.

The expression in philosophy was an "invisible hand explanation" -- as if some power is directing things towards some goal, but in fact there is no such power. Maybe no goal neither.

I'll just mention a pre Bach harpsichord recording which I like:

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

A rather teleological view, which makes no sense. The early composers created their own forms and rules, which suited their needs for artistic expression. But when we listen to their music with our modern ears, we are because of our knowledge of the intervening history induced to hear an imaginary evolution. Listening to their music in a fair way, one has to "turn back the clock" and try to listen with unprejudiced ears. I think this can be achieved by training.

You are of course right; to a certain extent, we have to "un-hear" the following centuries of music to make sense of this material. But that is part of the fun.