Headphone users MUST read

[Bonehelm]

You mean like these?



I have them.

Exactly. Many classical listeners on Head-fi.org criticize BOSE for their products, however.

[PerfectWagnerite]

Exactly. Many classical listeners on Head-fi.org criticize BOSE for their products, however.

That's partly because it is the "popular" thing to do. It shows somehow that you are part of a selected clique that "understands" what real sound should be like. Are they the best headphones in the world even for their price range, probably not (Sennheisers are more natural). But Bose gives you that extra boost that I kinda like, sort of like in the movie theater.

[Mark]

But Bose gives you that extra boost that I kinda like, sort of like in the movie theater.

Thanks for this. You've told me all I need to know to avoid BOSE. I don't want any 'extra boost' in my classical music, thanks. In fact, I have to wonder why some classical fans seem to prefer AKG's 'improved' bass response in their K601/K701 cans. Been to a classical concert lately? Bass move the air in your chest cavity? Thought not. The K501s deliver all the bass response I need for classical. If I want dance music through cans, I'll get a pair of closed-back DJ headphones.

(Don't mind my ranting. It's late and I'm tired. )

[Bonehelm]

It's ok Mark, nobody wants excess bass in classical music, afterall we don't want our music sound like hip hop...I got a pair of originally bass-heavy cans, but after following the instructions on Head-fi and modding the foam pads and adding blu-tak, they now sound excellent for all kinds of music. Not the most expensive stuff, but hey I'm a high school student, pardon me for not having $5k USD to spend. 

[beclemund]

Those Bose buds are not true in-ear monitors either. The bud is not designed to fit in the ear and they do not provide sound isolation either. Shure, Etymotic, and Ultimate Ears produce some of the better IEMs, but there are others out there as well. I use Etymotics ER6 with a foam tip. I have tried each of the others and these produced the best sound for me and had the best, most comfortable fit.

That's partly because it is the "popular" thing to do. It shows somehow that you are part of a selected clique that "understands" what real sound should be like. Are they the best headphones in the world even for their price range, probably not (Sennheisers are more natural). But Bose gives you that extra boost that I kinda like, sort of like in the movie theater.

I disagree with you here. They are consistently panned in reviews because they provide inferior performance vs. similarly priced IEMs. Bose is not universally poorly reviewed across their product lines, however, the QC3s get plenty of positive press.

[Bonehelm]

There are only a few models from BOSE that are considered by audiophiles to be "good".

[Soundproof]

Bonehelm, you're reminding people of something very important. We're going to be paying a steep price for the joy and convenience of portable music. Doctors are finding levels of hearing loss that are truly scary due to careless use of earphones.

I walk past people on the street who are wearing cans, and whose music I can hear when they are meters away from me ... They think they are drowning out surrounding noise - they're also drowning their ears.
Don't ever play anything right into your ears in order to drown out what's around you - period.

Our ears won't fail us if we think before we push the volume - yet it's amazing how quickly we can mess them up. A friend got tinnitus just a few months ago, while at a rock concert. Her ear began whining the next day and hasn't stopped since.

One recommendation I can come with: buy the best cans or loudspeakers you can afford; ensure that you have the best possible source and amplification you can afford. Why? You'll hear details at much lower volumes, and you'll keep your ears going much longer.

[Bonehelm]

Bonehelm, you're reminding people of something very important. We're going to be paying a steep price for the joy and convenience of portable music. Doctors are finding levels of hearing loss that are truly scary due to careless use of earphones.

I walk past people on the street who are wearing cans, and whose music I can hear when they are meters away from me ... They think they are drowning out surrounding noise - they're also drowning their ears.
Don't ever play anything right into your ears in order to drown out what's around you - period.

Our ears won't fail us if we think before we push the volume - yet it's amazing how quickly we can mess them up. A friend got tinnitus just a few months ago, while at a rock concert. Her ear began whining the next day and hasn't stopped since.

One recommendation I can come with: buy the best cans or loudspeakers you can afford; ensure that you have the best possible source and amplification you can afford. Why? You'll hear details at much lower volumes, and you'll keep your ears going much longer.

Great recommendation, Soundproof. 

[tjguitar]

I walk past people on the street who are wearing cans,

What are cans?

[Mark]

What are cans?

Slang for headphones.

[Bogey]

Thanks for this. You've told me all I need to know to avoid BOSE. I don't want any 'extra boost' in my classical music, thanks. In fact, I have to wonder why some classical fans seem to prefer AKG's 'improved' bass response in their K601/K701 cans. Been to a classical concert lately? Bass move the air in your chest cavity? Thought not. The K501s deliver all the bass response I need for classical. If I want dance music through cans, I'll get a pair of closed-back DJ headphones.

(Don't mind my ranting. It's late and I'm tired. )

Mark,
As I have stated in the past, I am very happy with my Bose....however, I always encourage that each person when selecting headphones to test drive as many models that they can before they buy, as the opinions vary from many I respect here.  For me, the Bose (Quiet Comfort 2 in my case) just were the best for me and how my hearing functions at this point in my life....plus they are extremely comfortable, a point that is important to me. 

[Bunny]

That's partly because it is the "popular" thing to do. It shows somehow that you are part of a selected clique that "understands" what real sound should be like. Are they the best headphones in the world even for their price range, probably not (Sennheisers are more natural). But Bose gives you that extra boost that I kinda like, sort of like in the movie theater.

There's nothing wrong with Bose headphones.  They are just not what they are advertised to be -- which is the best headphone at their price point.  The biggest problems with Bose is their price and their build.  They are not built to last, in fact they break more easily than other manufacturers' cans, and they are way overpriced for what they cost to manufacture.  They are a run of the mill headphone, and if the QC 2 and 3 were priced somewhere between $85 and $100 I'd recommend them to anyone with the means.  The worst thing I can say about them is that they don't transmit sound to the ear unless the noise canceling feature is turned on.  This means that if you want to use them in an environment free of train rumble or jet whine, then you will have a distorting hum to deal with in your ears.  At $300, they are a very bad purchase for ordinary cans that should only be used in specialized environments.  For the same money, you can do much, much better elsewhere.

No one takes their claims seriously with respect to their micro speakers and subwoofers.  Does anyone believe that the sound they deliver is anywhere near as good as they claim it is?  Does anyone actually believe that their Wave radio delivers sound as good as stereo with only one speaker?  Bose is a manufacturer that makes big claims, charges big money, and delivers very little.  It's no accident that they won't permit their products to be sold in stores that sell any other goods.  If you could listen to the Bose sound systems side by side with other sound systems, they couldn't sell their products.  The sole exception to this would be the Ipod dock which they also sell at Apple stores.  They are not even the best sounding docks there either, although they may be one of the most expensive.

[PerfectWagnerite]

It's no accident that they won't permit their products to be sold in stores that sell any other goods.  If you could listen to the Bose sound systems side by side with other sound systems, they couldn't sell their products. 

Uhhh, where did you get that idea? I see box systems (the one costing about $1000) with a couple of small speakers selling next to other brands at the Circuit City across the street. Also Target sells Bose heaphones.

Don't know about reliability, as I haven't had mine all that long. Time will tell. I would buy Sennheisers but do they have to make the 5 series so BIG? The noise canceling one (is it the 450?) is the size of a house.

[Soundproof]

I could go on far too long about Bose and how they arrive at their sound, but I'll leave it to Steve Perry. What you hear is the result of manipulating the frequency response quite severely.

Are Bose Headphones Good Or Bad?

Steve Perry - Friday, 8 June 2007


Is Bose sound good or bad? We have raised this issue several times in SmartHouse Magazine with many of you claiming it is downright awful while other readers have said "bugger the sound we love the design".
Now questions are being raised about the quality of Bose's noise cancelling headphones. Steve Perry writing in the US asks the question. Why is Bose so secretive about the frequency response of their noise-cancelling headphones? Could it be because it's not as good as they could wish?

Article: Bose has a long history of not disclosing specifications of any type. Wikipedia's entry on Bose Corp. states Bose's position, as taken from a paper published by the Audio Engineering Society, at aes.org: "The ultimate test, Bose insists, is your perception of audible quality (or lack of it) and your preferences. Unlike other major speaker manufacturers, Bose does not publish specifications relating to the measured electrical and objective acoustic performance of its products. This reluctance to publish information is due to Bose's rejection of these measurements in favour of "more meaningful measurement and evaluation procedures."


In other words, it does not matter what the scientific measurements say; it is whether you think it sounds good or not when you listen to it.

My position, and that of most audiophiles, is that specifications are very meaningful, especially for loudspeakers and headphones. Audio is a science as well as an art.

You have touched upon the most important specification, frequency response, which is the portion of the audible spectrum that the equipment can reproduce. Humans can hear between 20 Hz (deep bass) and 20,000 Hz (very high treble) and you want the speaker to reproduce as much of this range as it can evenly, without exaggerating any specific part of it. A figure such as +/- 3db will be given with the frequency response to specify it can reproduce the spectrum without varying more than 3db softer or louder.

A test of Bose's Acoustimass system's cubes showed by far the worst frequency response I have ever seen: 280 Hz to 13.3 kHz at? 10.5 dB. If you compared it with audiophile, or even mass-market speakers of reasonable quality, a variation of 10.5 db is totally off the charts. I imagine the "incredible deal overstock" speakers you can buy out of the back of a cargo van would post better numbers. (In fact, if you own a set of these van speakers, write me -- perhaps this would make an interesting comparison!) You can read a summary of the test at www.intellexual.net/bose.html.


Besides the incredibly huge variance in frequency response, the cubes cut off at 13.3khz, which means more than 65 percent of the highest octave is unaccounted for, because the speakers are incapable of reproducing it. The audiophile phrase "no highs, no lows, must be Bose" certainly is relevant here.

Specifications don't always tell all -- for example, many audiophiles prefer the sound of tube amplifiers, though they have more measured distortion than solid state amplifiers. Still, smooth frequency response without huge peaks and valleys is always desirable.

When I first received my Polk i-Sonic review unit I was impressed by how smooth, clean and sweet it sounded. I mentioned this to Polk's marketing manager, Paul DiComo, a month later in a visit to Polk's HQ. He mentioned they were using digital sound processing to create very even response from bass to treble and produced a frequency response graph showing an almost flat line from left to right.

Only Bose truly knows the true reasons it does not publish specifications, but given how ridiculous it would look if it did (especially given the premium prices it charges) this sometimes cynical columnist thinks it is hiding something.

[M forever]

Are Bose Headphones Good Or Bad?

That question can be easily answered by just adding two ..

Like this

Are Böse Headphones Good Or Bad?

Then you just need to look up what "böse" means and you have your answer.

Nothing but Sennheiser for my ears. I deserve the best.

[Bonehelm]

Yeah, Sennheiser HD595 and HD650 are really good for classical music

[Soundproof]

That question can be easily answered by just adding two ..

Like this

Are Böse Headphones Good Or Bad?

Then you just need to look up what "böse" means and you have your answer.

Nothing but Sennheiser for my ears. I deserve the best.

Oh, no problem there. Would never buy any Bose, and böse is a word I'm quite acquainted with. As, for instance, in this sentence: Welcher böse Geist hat mich mit diesem blödsinnigen Deutschen zusammengesperrt?

I have a pair of Sennheiser HD580 that have done faithful service through the years, as well as a pair of HD600s that don't get to spend quite as much time on top of my head, and a pair of HD650s that do.

[bhodges]

I recently bought a pair of Sennheiser HD595s and couldn't be happier with them.  The sound is marvelous, as is the comfort level, which is very important to me since I often use them for 3-4 hours at a time.  And thanks to a pal here at GMG (thanks again!), I found them at www.headphone.com for around $200, and they appear to be still available at that price. 

One very nice detail: they include a small "headphone holder" that you can attach (e.g., to a nearby shelf) to hang them on.  Now that is someone really thinking the project through from start to finish.

--Bruce

[M forever]

Oh, no problem there. Would never buy any Bose, and böse is a word I'm quite acquainted with. As, for instance, in this sentence: Welcher böse Geist hat mich mit diesem blödsinnigen Deutschen zusammengesperrt?

I have a pair of Sennheiser HD580 that have done faithful service through the years, as well as a pair of HD600s that don't get to spend quite as much time on top of my head, and a pair of HD650s that do.

You aren't telling me you can actually read German? I mean, yourself, not with Babelfish?

I have had the HD530 for a long time and recently bought myself the HD595 but haven't listened much with them yet. The HD530 is fairly "bright" and "analytical" and "crisp", the HD595 is noticeably "warmer", but to my ears at this time, they sound a little "muffled", although they have more "presence". But that doesn't mean anything. It takes a while to get used to new headphones and "calibrate" your ears to them. None of them sound completey "natural" anyway, it is mostly a matter of having good headphones which at least come close and correcting the rest in your head. Sort of.

I may however get myself the HD650, too. I deserve the best.

headphone.com is a good dealer. I bought my Total BitHead from them which accompanies me on all my adventurous travels.

[Soundproof]

Das hieße wie mit dem Brennglas Schwamm anzünden und sagen: Schau Mensch! Das ist Sonnenfeuer!

I've kind of always liked Christian Friedrich Daniel Schubart's review of Goethe's Die Leiden des jungen Werthers.

===

I actually prefer the HD580s for most of my listening. The 600s are for finding mistakes and the 650s may replace the 580s with time. It takes a long time to run in headphones.