Mahler 6 Blind Comparison: Impressions and Votes

[madaboutmahler]

Thanks, Sarge.

Don't worry, Discobole. Hope you'll be able to do the final part!

Ok, voting finished! Just off to go and count up the votes now! Results shall hopefully be posted tommorow evening.

[madaboutmahler]

Part 2 RESULTS!

#15: B7 Danish National Radio Symphony Orchestra/Segerstam (Chandos/1991)
Despite doing rather well in the first round, this recording was called 'boring' and too 'mannered'. This recording received no votes at all in Part 2.
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#14: C5 WDR Orchestra/Mitropoulos (Music&Arts/1959
Never quite recieving top votes from anyone, this recording was criticised as being 'disjointed', 'uninspired' and for the poor control of the orchestra. Many places this as their least favourite, but it was also admired by a few.
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#13: A3 New York Philharmonic/Bernstein (Sony/1967)
Bernstein's earlier M6 is also out a relatively early stage, not even making it half way. Some described it is 'a little too straight-forward', 'sluggish' and 'lacking edge'.
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#12: B4 Royal Concertgebouw/Chailly (Decca/1997)
Criticised by some as lacking in character, and being a bit bland, and of course a lot slower, than the others, nearly all found a good word to say about this recording, nearly always recieving part of a vote.
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#11: C2 Vienna Philharmonic/Maazel (Sony/1992
A performance that recieved mixed responses. At the very top for some, in the middle for others, saying 'good, but nothing spectacular', and at the bottom for others, saying that the performance was 'bland'.
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[madaboutmahler]

Part 2 RESULTS! (continued)

#10: C3 Berlin Philharmonic/Abbado (DG/2004)
Praised for the orchestral playing, and mostly liked very much, although sometimes called too deliberate, and lacking energy.
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#09: B2 Berlin Philharmonic/Rattle (BPO/1987)
This appears to be a 'love it or hate it' recording. Some commented that the orchestra was 'less than perfect' and 'weak', and that the tempo changes were to exaggerated.


#08: C4 Chicago Symphony Orchestra/Solti (Decca/1972)
Generally much loved, this recording was described by characterful, detailed and bright. However, some believed the conductor was too self-indulgent.
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#07: C7 Berlin Philharmonic/Karajan (DG/1978)
Recieving exactly half of it's possible votes, this recording did very well. It was praised for the detail and orchestral playing, but was criticised especially in the scherzo for the slow tempi.
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#06: B1 Philharmonia/Sinopoli (DG/1994)
Every voter except one did place this recording within their top 5, just never at the first place. Described as an intense, well-contrasting, but some commented that it lacked an element of playfulness in the scherzo.
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[madaboutmahler]

So, there they are, the results for part 2! Any surprises?

A very interesting top 5! Shall be sending out the links for the final part of this comparison during the weekend! Part 3 will be involving the whole last movement for each of the top 5 finalist performances. How long do you want for this?

[trung224]

  Very interesring result, Daniel. With this result in part 2, I think top can be Barbirolli or Tennstedt live. I really want to participate. Can you count me in ?

[Lisztianwagner]

C4 was the Solti and C7 was the Karajan???

[jlaurson]

Part 2 RESULTS! (continued)

#10: C3 Berlin Philharmonic/Abbado (DG/2004)
Praised for the orchestral playing, and mostly liked very much, although sometimes called too deliberate, and lacking energy.



G.Mahler: Symphony No.6
Abbado II

WETA Mahler Survey

Abbado's most recent recording with the Berlin Philharmonic has been hyped, hailed, and awarded. The Gramophone and The Financial Times both raved about it. It wasn't much to my liking when I reviewed it and it isn't now. It's good and excellently played and it's mild and gentle, genteel and polished—and unfortunately also quite listless, if not comatose.

#07: C7 Berlin Philharmonic/Karajan (DG/1978)
Recieving exactly half of it's possible votes, this recording did very well. It was praised for the detail and orchestral playing, but was criticised especially in the scherzo for the slow tempi.



G.Mahler: Symphony No.6
Karajan

Karajan's DG recording of the Sixth is his third-to-last Mahler recording and, along with the second Ninth, his best. Mahler was a composer to whom Karajan found only late in life... and 'the later, the better' fully applies to his Mahler recordings (the two to follow were the special accounts of the Ninth) and this one could be in a category of its own. The approach to 'sound' that he drilled into the Berlin Philharmonic, the insistence on absolute perfection (at least whenever in the recording studio), that polish, that well-oiled machine... it all works towards a truly spectacular Mahler experience. Surely on the clean side of the raw-genteel divide, it is probably the most propulsive of the "drool-free" versions. It is a little short on any particular Mahler-flavor but it more than makes up for that with its numerous other qualities.

Part 2 RESULTS!


#14: C5 WDR Orchestra/Mitropoulos (Music&Arts/1959
Never quite recieving top votes from anyone, this recording was criticised as being 'disjointed', 'uninspired' and for the poor control of the orchestra. Many places this as their least favourite, but it was also admired by a few.



G.Mahler: Symphony No.6
Mitropoulos II

but the live-recording with the WDR Sinfonieorchester Köln from 1959 (at time when "live" meant live!) is riveting, raw, individualistic (still shy of eccentric); truly an edge-of-the-seat reading. (Issued on the Mitropoulos set as part of EMI's prematurely aborted "Greatest Conductors of the 20th Century" edition, it is still available... while I'm not sure if I trust the sound on the Urania issue currently in print, given bad experience with that label.) That the orchestra struggles in several passages can be troubling—or alternatively seen as furthering that pushed-to-the-brink feeling. The order of the movements here is Scherzo/Andante and that's how it has been published in all its outings on CD... Mitropoulos curiously having changed the movement-order four years prior to the International Gustav Mahler Gesellschaft's critical edition suggesting the Scherzo be placed first. (Most likely Erwin Ratz, founder and editor of the IGMG, and the irrationally ardent supporter of the Scherzo-Andante order mentioned above, had convinced him to do so before a performance in Vienna in 1957.) The sound is admittedly rather limited for most of the first movement but it gets better from thereon... and the rest of the modest quality is adjusted for by the ears. Not a 'first' recommendation but a dedicated Mahler listener or any fan of the Sixth won't pass it up. This recording, unlike some other old and low-fi recordings I have criticized, is one where you definitely can hear and enjoy the interpretive choices.

[Discobole]

I'm not surprised that C5 was Mitropoulos, I really liked this version from what I heard in part 1, very special and powerful.

The live Rattle from 1987 is really great, it's a little sad that it didn't make it to the next level.

I can't say I'm surprised that Karajan is eliminated. And even less about Solti, Chailly, Abbado, who were never good in this symphony. And Maazel, really, what for ?

So there remains 5 versions ? How are you going to organize the finals ? Ideally we should listen to the 3 excerpts for each...

[DavidW]

I feel great that this is proof that my taste in recordings survives the blind listening.  Stuff I liked, I liked blind, ditto stuff I dislike.  Sarge will murder me for knocking Solti out of the running, but it had to be done!   Actually that is exactly what Solti does... he polarizes.  Look how divisive the opinions are!

I was surprised that non-blind listening I thought the sony Bernstein was too fast, when I thought nothing but awesome blindly!

I'm glad to see that my two favs of round 2 live to survive another round.  I really can't wait to see what A4 and B5 are.

[zauberflöte]

I was really curious who C4 was. In hindsight Solti makes perfect sense. He's  been described as relentless, brutal even, and those excerpts showed that. I still want hear his whole recording.
I had called C2 and C3 as reaching, for me, the mediocre Abbado plateau and C3 was Abaddo! Do I win anything? 
Sorry to see the Sinopoli go. I had liked it a lot in round one but he wasn't one of my choices in round two.
I had a feeling the Karajan was here and wouldn't go too far. I used to like it and loved it in round one, not so much in round 2, but it's been eclipsed by others.
The first Bernstein was another I didn't think would last. His later recording is much better and that one didn't make it past round one.
So of my favorites, B5, C1, A7 remain, I think, but really only one of those I'm rooting for.

[mc ukrneal]

Interesting that three of the finalists are from the A group. Those three that are left from that group have always received top three votes from me in both rounds (when heard). I was also intrigued that my second place vote for the scherzo was Rattle.

[fridden]

Hm, I was surprised I rated Rattled so high, because when I have listened to Rattle in Mahler before I havent been that impressed.
I am also sad to see Solti go, because his 6th is among my favorites!

This is like a suspense thriller, who are the last 5!! 

/fridden

[madaboutmahler]

  Very interesring result, Daniel. With this result in part 2, I think top can be Barbirolli or Tennstedt live. I really want to participate. Can you count me in ?

Will be very happy to count you in!

C4 was the Solti and C7 was the Karajan???

Enjoyed reading all your feedback and seeing how surprised you are at some of the results!
I was sad to see the Solti go, but am pleased with the final 5, a surprising list!
And, in terms of how we are going to organize the final part, there are two options. Which would you rather go with:
a) compare the top 5 versions of the entire final movement.
b) compare the top 5 versions of 5 minute excerpts from the first three movements, along with a 15 minute excerpt from the finale.

Whichever is the most popular option, I shall go with.

[Novi]

Happy to see A4 and A8 (my top two from round 2) as well as A7, which I also liked from round 1, go through to the final.

Of the ones from my groups that have been revealed, I've only heard the Horenstein (eliminated first round) and the Bernstein NYPO - can't say I recognised them at all, but do remember finding the Horenstein rigid, especially in terms of tempo.

I wonder how listening and judging on a shortish excerpt affects the overall results. For instance, I like the Karajan and remember it to be a painfully beautiful reading, but perhaps that's the Andante I'm thinking of (it's been a few years), and off hand, I can't remember what the Scherzo was like. I've enjoyed Abbado's more temperate reading in the past, but wonder if I would've found it a bit bland had I listened to it blindly. A little sad to see the Mitropoulos go - I think that's the most recent 6th that I've listened to, and even that's a year or two ago; I really liked it's do-or-die roughness, but agree that it's not really top 5 material.

Can't wait to hear the finalists, especially since madaboutmahler suggests that it's a surprising list.

[eyeresist]

And, in terms of how we are going to organize the final part, there are two options. Which would you rather go with:
a) compare the top 5 versions of the entire final movement.
b) compare the top 5 versions of 5 minute excerpts from the first three movements, along with a 15 minute excerpt from the finale.

Whichever is the most popular option, I shall go with.

I'm not playing, just watching, but if you've been using entire movements so far, I'd suggest sticking with that.

[Lisztianwagner]

Enjoyed reading all your feedback and seeing how surprised you are at some of the results!
I was sad to see the Solti go, but am pleased with the final 5, a surprising list!
And, in terms of how we are going to organize the final part, there are two options. Which would you rather go with:
a) compare the top 5 versions of the entire final movement.
b) compare the top 5 versions of 5 minute excerpts from the first three movements, along with a 15 minute excerpt from the finale.

Quite surprised for the results, definitely!
I'm sorry both the Karajan and the Solti didn't pass the turn, at this point I'm very curious to listen to the final 5 recordings!
I think the second option could be a brilliant idea, hearing excerpts from every movement would be very beautiful and much helpful to judge better. I'm really looking forward to starting the final part, this blind comparison is such a massive fun, so much wonderful music!

[Discobole]

I think we should listen to each movement, otherwise the winner won't be the best version of the symphony, but the best version of the last movement...

[jlaurson]

I think we should listen to each movement, otherwise the winner won't be the best version of the symphony, but the best version of the last movement...

True. Any Mahler symphony is much more than the sum of its parts. I can think of many a performance that achieves greatness out of individual moments that are not themselves impressive... and similarly interpretations that cast glory on many moments but 'don't come together'. If I may chime in, from the outside.

[Sergeant Rock]

Sarge will murder me for knocking Solti out of the running, but it had to be done!   Actually that is exactly what Solti does... he polarizes.  Look how divisive the opinions are!

Yeah, I was pretty upset when I saw you trashed it    I knew C4 was Solti. His Scherzo is quite distinctive. I recognized it immediately. I thought, briefly, about retaliating and placing B5 at the bottom, but I couldn't do it. Since Solti is my favorite 6th as a whole (I'm especially taken with his first and last movements), I could have cheated and placed it first (would that have pushed it into the third round, Daniel?) but I had to be honest, with myself, with you guys: I prefer the Scherzos I heard in C1 and A7. Liked their recorded sound more too.

Going back to the votes, how did B5 make it into the finals ahead of C4? Here are the votes:

C4 1 2 3 4 7
B5 2 4 5 5 6

I guess I don't understand how the voting works because it appears to me C4 (Solti) was placed higher by more people (four votes in the top four with one first place vote vs two votes in the top four with no first place votes). How did B5 beat C4?

Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

a) compare the top 5 versions of the entire final movement.
b) compare the top 5 versions of 5 minute excerpts from the first three movements, along with a 15 minute excerpt from the finale.

I'd prefer to hear full movements.

Sarge