Mahler 6 Blind Comparison: Impressions and Votes

Started by madaboutmahler, April 12, 2012, 03:33:12 AM

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classicalgeek

Well, I completed the listening, but it wasn't easy with a 12-day business trip earlier this month!  I didn't have time to write up something on each recording, but for this final round, my ranking is this:

1. B5
2. A8 (a close second!)
[larger gap]
3. C1
4. A7
5. A4

Looking forward to the final reveal!
So much great music, so little time...

Original compositions and orchestrations: https://www.youtube.com/@jmbrannigan

madaboutmahler

Thank you very much Johan, Sarge, Ilaria and James for your votes. Just recording them now. A few more votes to wait for, I shall message these users and see what their voting situation is. Hopefully should be able to reveal the results very soon! :)

Sarge, your comments were a joy to read! :D
Those who did not have the time to write full comments, don't worry - I understand, life is very busy at times! It is sometimes difficult to find the time to listen to 5 hours of Mahler anyway! :)
Thank you all, again! Glad you have enjoyed the comparison, hope you'll be able to take part in the next (M1) too! :)
"Music is ... A higher revelation than all Wisdom & Philosophy"
— Ludwig van Beethoven

Sergeant Rock

Now that I've listened blind, and made my choices, I just had to know--now!--who C1 is. Turns out to be a conductor I've heard live in Mahler (the Seventh at Severance Hall in Cleveland), and a performance that's been recommended to me many times by someone in the forum (I think it was ChamberNut). I should have listened  ;D  I do own it but have only ever given it cursory listens before.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Lisztianwagner

Thank you, Daniel :) Anyway, for the sake of completeness, I hope to post all my thoughts tomorrow.
The 1st symphony is going to be the next subject for the Mahler blind comparison? How wonderful, I absolutely love it.
"Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire." - Gustav Mahler

alkan

#204
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on June 21, 2012, 01:27:42 PM

Sure, there should be a hint of the future tragedy but when it starts with the very first bars...
I also can't stand the cowbells in the first movement; it sounds as if bovines are drowning in an Alpine lake.


This is the tragedy that the conductor of A7 is highlighting ... !!!    I didn't realize the significance of the cowbells until now ....  :D
It also explains the groans from the conductor that are picked up by the mike   (I think he is trying to say "mooooah") ...
This revelation changes my entire view of the music ....     thanks for the insight Sarge ...

PS : Never again will I eat a hamburger whilst listening to this symphony .....
The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity.
Harlan Ellison (1934 - )

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: alkan on June 22, 2012, 01:30:09 AM
This is the tragedy that the conductor of A7 is highlighting ... !!!    I didn't realize the significance of the cowbells until now ....  :D
It also explains the groans from the conductor that are picked up by the mike   (I think he is trying to say "mooooah") ...

;D :D ;D

But seriously, the cowbells sound so odd in this recording. It sounds to me as if they were recorded under water; they have this strange hollow reverb.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

alkan

Sarge, what is your favorite for the finale (not the whole symphony)? .. excluding Szell of course   ;)
The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity.
Harlan Ellison (1934 - )

Sergeant Rock

#207
Quote from: alkan on June 22, 2012, 03:13:52 AM
Sarge, what is your favorite for the finale (not the whole symphony)? .. excluding Szell of course   ;)

Szell has the most terrifying ending, shocking after the relative emotional restraint of much of his performance. But excluding Szell...it would have to be either Solti or Lenny DG. (Am I the only one who hears the third hammerblow in these two? Most performances omit it.)

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

alkan

Lenny VPO has the 3rd hammer-blow for sure.     I don't think that Solti has (need to listen again), but his big crash at the final climax could drown out a nuclear attack.
     
I seem to remember a version by a Japanese conductor (not Ozawa) that had the best final blow of all .... there seemed to be all sorts of percussion involved and it almost sounded like someone dropped a tray full of crockery next to the mike.   It was mighty impressive.   Can anyone confirm this and tell me which version this is ?

Thanks ... A     
The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity.
Harlan Ellison (1934 - )

alkan

Sarge, you are correct .... both the Bernstein and Solti versions restore the 3rd hammer blow that was deleted by the composer.
The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity.
Harlan Ellison (1934 - )

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: alkan on June 22, 2012, 11:13:54 PM
Sarge, you are correct .... both the Bernstein and Solti versions restore the 3rd hammer blow that was deleted by the composer.

Thanks for confirming what my ears were telling me (I don't always trust them  :D ): an extra thud in the mix that doesn't resonate like a drum.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

DavidRoss

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on June 21, 2012, 01:27:42 PM
I also can't stand the cowbells in the first movement; it sounds as if bovines are drowning in an Alpine lake.
Quote from: alkan on June 22, 2012, 01:30:09 AM
This is the tragedy that the conductor of A7 is highlighting ... !!!    I didn't realize the significance of the cowbells until now ....  :D
It also explains the groans from the conductor that are picked up by the mike   (I think he is trying to say "mooooah") ...
This revelation changes my entire view of the music ....     thanks for the insight Sarge ...

PS : Never again will I eat a hamburger whilst listening to this symphony .....
;D

I'll have to keep my ears peeled for the cowbells next time I listen to this recording!
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: DavidRoss on June 23, 2012, 04:55:02 AM
;D

I'll have to keep my ears peeled for the cowbells next time I listen to this recording!

Bring plenty of tissues to the listening room, David. Prepare for a flood of tears  ;)

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

madaboutmahler

Just waiting for a few more votes now, so not long until the big reveal! And then we can get started on Mahler 1 ;)
"Music is ... A higher revelation than all Wisdom & Philosophy"
— Ludwig van Beethoven

TimH

MY OVERALL ORDER:

1st = A4 - monumental, all movements full of character, emotion and excitement, excellent orchestra and solos, spacious and detailed recording; finale has huge build up of tension and coruscating climaxes

2nd = A8 - highly involving; finale precise, detailed and controlled, muscular string playing, hammer blows like thunder claps, dynamic and thrilling; occasionally audience noise is obtrusive

3rd = A7 - poweful and urgent, majesterial; finale truly epic and stirring, sometimes noble sometimes sinister; unfortunately conductor's frequent mumbling and groaning occasionally detracts from performance (otherwise might have been my 2nd choice)

4th = C1 - majestic overall; but finale lacks momentum and not as involving as others

5th = B5 - well behind the others for me - does not have the same impact, but difficult to pinpoint why

It's been very enjoyable to take part in this blind comparision - thanks madaboutmahler for organising it! Looking forward to finding out the final results with the performers revealed.

madaboutmahler

Thank you, glad you enjoyed it!

Right - I think those are all the votes we will have in, so I shall hopefully be able to post the results this evening! :)
"Music is ... A higher revelation than all Wisdom & Philosophy"
— Ludwig van Beethoven

DavidRoss

#216
Quote from: madaboutmahler on June 26, 2012, 08:07:16 AM
Thank you, glad you enjoyed it!

Right - I think those are all the votes we will have in, so I shall hopefully be able to post the results this evening! :)
So few?! Idathunk thisd get a bigger response.

P.S. Where's your vote, Daniel?
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

madaboutmahler

Quote from: DavidRoss on June 26, 2012, 08:31:16 AM
So few?! Idathunk thisd get a bigger response.

P.S. Where's your vote, Daniel?

Well, there were 10 votes, which was not bad! There were more people voting in the first two parts, around 4 more or so I think. And sadly David (W) has disappeared again...

I thought I wouldn't place a vote as obviously I already know what the recordings are. But I do know which ones I would like to win! ;)
"Music is ... A higher revelation than all Wisdom & Philosophy"
— Ludwig van Beethoven

DavidRoss

I already tabulated the last round a couple of different ways and got the same result both times. As we've already discussed privately, there was one big surprise for me in the blind listening, though my response is unique among the 10 participants. I've been thinking about that one a bit and suspect that I tend to be a bit dismissive of individual symphony recordings acquired as part of a complete set, rather than as single issues.  And that makes sense, for I doubtless give the single issues a more thorough hearing when I buy them, thus am more likely to warm to their virtues.

Thanks again for your efforts in putting this together for us!
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

madaboutmahler

Thank you for posting those thoughts, David.

It's an absolute pleasure - and thank you for taking part!

Ok, results hopefully within around half an hour! :)
"Music is ... A higher revelation than all Wisdom & Philosophy"
— Ludwig van Beethoven