Great artist AND great human being

Started by springrite, April 21, 2012, 08:06:37 AM

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not edward

Surely Karl Amadeus Hartmann must rank highly here: one of the few German artistic figures to act honourably during World War 2, a tireless promoter of new music--sometimes music that he did not necessarily have any great sympathy for--and a fine composer in his own right.
"I don't at all mind actively disliking a piece of contemporary music, but in order to feel happy about it I must consciously understand why I dislike it. Otherwise it remains in my mind as unfinished business."
-- Aaron Copland, The Pleasures of Music

Karl Henning

Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Lisztianwagner

#22
Quote from: The new erato on April 22, 2012, 06:20:47 AM
Solti?

I remember a reasonably well known and thrustworthy singer on record in a Norwegian newspaper telling how Solti had told her that if she didn't sleep with him, she would never work again.

Really?? :o
I didn't know it!
"Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire." - Gustav Mahler

Lethevich

Quote from: Antoine Marchand on April 22, 2012, 06:58:08 AM
Maybe this thread would even be more interesting, if every proposed name were accompanied by some anecdote or short comment about why it is thought that that person was a good person.

"One morning, bringing the old man his breakfast tray, she found him in bed with a young woman. "This is my daughter, Lotte," grunted Klemperer by way of introduction, "and you - what did you say your name was?"

He must've been pretty great to get them to put up with that ;D
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

Josquin des Prez

#24
Quote from: The new erato on April 22, 2012, 06:20:47 AM
Solti?

I remember a reasonably well known and thrustworthy singer on record in a Norwegian newspaper telling how Solti had told her that if she didn't sleep with him, she would never work again.

It fits. If i were to use a word to describe his conducting, "sleazy" is the first thing that comes to my mind. If it wasn't for the uncanny level of virtuosity he was able to get out of the orchestra his career would have never gotten anywhere, since as an artist, yack is all i can say. Of course, it needs to be stressed that the word of women on this matters is not to be trusted. The false rape epidemic (and the incredible amount of pettiness that drives women to this phenomena) is a testament to this. The phrase "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" cannot be put in place unless you realize women generally have no understanding of concepts like honor, and by extension justice. Its just as likely Solti had scorned this woman and that she sought revenge by "imputing" on his character.

Still, at least his ego wasn't so big as to get in the way of his conducting, unlike, say, Karajan. What a way to squander so much talent on petty narcissism. 

Lethevich

#25
Go....edited by Knight......, dude.
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

knight66

Quote from: Josquin des Prez on April 22, 2012, 08:00:50 AM
It fits. If i were to use a word to describe his conducting, "sleazy" is the first thing that comes to my mind. If it wasn't for the uncanny level of virtuosity he was able to get out of the orchestra his career would have never gotten anywhere, since as an artist, yack is all i can say. Of course, it needs to be stressed that the word of women on this matters is not to be trusted. The false rape epidemic (and the incredible amount of pettiness that drives women to this phenomena) is a testament to this. The phrase "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" cannot be put in place unless you realize women generally have no understanding of concepts like honor, and by extension justice. Its just as likely Solti had scorned this woman and that she sought revenge by "imputing" on his character.

Still, at least his ego wasn't so big as to get in the way of his conducting, unlike, say, Karajan. What a way to squander so much talent on petty narcissism.

JdP, I have edited a response to this idiotic and misogynistic post. For goodness sake get a grip and stop being provocative for the sake of it. Any more along these lines will just disappear, possibly along with your ability to post. I almost feel inclined to restore Sara's suggestion to you.

Knight
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

Scion7

It seems from the accounts that I've read, that Schubert was a pretty good guy (and one that died much too young.)
When, a few months before his death, Rachmaninov lamented that he no longer had the "strength and fire" to compose, friends reminded him of the Symphonic Dances, so charged with fire and strength. "Yes," he admitted. "I don't know how that happened. That was probably my last flicker."

snyprrr


Polednice

False rape epidemic?! How has this person survived to get over 3,600 posts?

Anyway, I would nominate Brahms. There are a few anecdotes out there that people use to demonstrate his insulting character, but he seems really to have been tender-hearted with a sardonic sense of humour, and that's hardly a point against him, people just become prone to misunderstanding his intentions. Whenever I've read about him, I've always been struck by his devotion to his friends and his work, his general caring nature, and, most of all, his great humility.

Scion7

Quote from: Polednice on April 22, 2012, 10:14:53 AM
Anyway, I would nominate Brahms.

I agree in many ways, but there is no denying he jilted his fiance post-Clara - partly due to his past childhood, partly due to his realization (probably) that a wife would have impeded his artistic progress due to the responsibilities of being a husband, for which he was probably not suited.  His humanitarianism is not in doubt, but he was often a gruff character - not sure "great human being" can be used for man with some pretty definite cranky issues.  But no matter.  We have his astounding music!
When, a few months before his death, Rachmaninov lamented that he no longer had the "strength and fire" to compose, friends reminded him of the Symphonic Dances, so charged with fire and strength. "Yes," he admitted. "I don't know how that happened. That was probably my last flicker."

Sergeant Rock

the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Josquin des Prez

Wait, what was wrong with Klemperer? I always thought of him as a crazy scientist, or something like a loony intellectual. In fact, in some picture he even reminds me of Egon Spengler from the Ghostbusters. Surely though he had no severe personal blemish? Unless you would consider having a really bad haircut as such.

Lethevich

Naw, just picking a random ultra-crabby and strange individual. For a real dick, Walter Legge could be a candidate.
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

Josquin des Prez

Quote from: Scion7 on April 22, 2012, 10:51:35 AM
I agree in many ways, but there is no denying he jilted his fiance post-Clara - partly due to his past childhood, partly due to his realization (probably) that a wife would have impeded his artistic progress due to the responsibilities of being a husband, for which he was probably not suited.  His humanitarianism is not in doubt, but he was often a gruff character - not sure "great human being" can be used for man with some pretty definite cranky issues.  But no matter.  We have his astounding music!

I have no idea why so many people seem to think being misanthropic or acting "gruff" means one is not a "good" human being, or at very least less then what a human being should be, according to a standard which to be frank i cannot fathom. To me Brahms had one of the most noble souls among the great composers, and i'm not saying this just because of his music.


raduneo

For my list I have to include Shostakovich, Mahler, Elgar, Rachmaninoff, Arvo Part, Janacek. Oh, and Bach! I read in Milton Cross's encyclopedia that Bach was not only a devout man, but also EXTREMELY hard working. He had I don't know how many kids (over 8), he gave classes, he had a post as kappelmaster and he composed enormous amounts of music!

I would add quite a few more if the topic would say "great arist AND interesting human being"! :P

Brian

Quote from: raduneo on April 22, 2012, 01:10:13 PMOh, and Bach! I read in Milton Cross's encyclopedia that Bach was not only a devout man, but also EXTREMELY hard working.

I also heard in a lecture that Bach was censured by his bosses for getting in a fistfight at the local tavern!

Scion7

Quote from: Josquin des Prez on April 22, 2012, 11:32:13 AM
I have no idea why so many people seem to think being misanthropic...

It's the very definition of the term.  He participated in a completely undeserved and unprovoked personal attack on Liszt, a man who had not wronged him in any way.  He broke things off abruptly with Clara during the infamous Swiss rendezvous, although with time their friendship survived it.  He none-too-gently jilted Agatha von Seibold.  Understand now?
When, a few months before his death, Rachmaninov lamented that he no longer had the "strength and fire" to compose, friends reminded him of the Symphonic Dances, so charged with fire and strength. "Yes," he admitted. "I don't know how that happened. That was probably my last flicker."

DavidW

Vivaldi is such a great human being that not only did he a priest have an affair with a student, but when they moved in together he cheated on her with her sister!

Antoine Marchand

Quote from: Brian on April 22, 2012, 01:15:17 PM
I also heard in a lecture that Bach was censured by his bosses for getting in a fistfight at the local tavern!

This is, approximately, the account of this incident:

QuoteAfter completing his studies at Lüneberg, and a short tenure as violinist in the court orchestra at Weimar, Bach earned a post as both organist and choir director at the New Church in Arnstadt. During his four years there (1703-1707), his work as a musician was highly respected. As choir director, however, he was known for his short patience with less-than-able students. One evening, as Bach was walking across the marketplace with his cousin Barbara Catharina, a student named Geyersbach jumped up and came at him with a stick, claiming the teacher had insulted him earlier. When Bach denied insulting him, Geyersbach retorted that he had insulted his bassoon, and whoever insults his bassoon, insults him as well. The student then called Bach a dirty dog, or Hundsfott, and struck at him. Bach drew his dagger, and the two wrestled until other students present intervened.

A court hearing shortly after found that Bach had indeed called Geyersbach a nanny-goat bassoonist, or Zippelfagottist, and he was reprimanded for doing so. A man must live among the imperfect, Bach was told, and the students and teacher must do their best with what they have.

:)