the recommended works project

[coffee]

Hello, you might have seen my projects on other boards - this is going to be like them, so if you're familiar with them already then you can just skip to the last paragraph of this post. Otherwise, friend, read on!

The goal of this project is to create a prioritized list of works of music that we recommend to someone new to classical music. The idea is that the #1 work on our list is the work that we'd recommend most highly to someone brand new to classical music; the #2 work on the list is what we'd recommend to someone who'd only heard the #1 work on our list - and so on.

Please help us! None of us have perfect knowledge of classical music; we're all voting with more or less knowledge and more or less ignorance. Please participate by voting for the works you love most and want to recommend to others. People might disagree with your choices, but please be patient and persistent - your participation will make our list better. (Please note: This is our list, not supposed to be the official objective canon of Western art music. A different group of people would create a different list – even the same group of people at a different time would create a different list – and that is all just fine, but this is our list at this point in our lives, and we value everyone's participation.)

Here is the least you need to know in order to vote*:

1. Make sure you're at the end of the thread, so that you can see the board (the list of works we're voting on) as of the most recent vote. See who cast that vote, and write "After [that person]" in your post.

2. Identify the work on the list that you most want to recommend, and your second choice. Then identify the work on the list that you least want to recommend. Type the names of three works in order, like this: "Beethoven Symphony #5 / Bach Goldberg Variations / Brahms Piano Trio #1."

3. If you can copy and paste the board, then please do so, adding 2 points to your first choice, 1 point to your second choice, and subtracting one point from the one you least want to recommend. But if you cannot do that (such as if you're voting from a phone), then just post the names of the works in order (as in step #2) and someone else will copy and paste the list for you.

4. Wait at least 9 hours and vote again!

Further Details:

1. If you want to add a work to the board for us to vote on, please check to make sure we haven't already recommended it. I'll keep the ordered list of our recommendations in the 2nd post of this thread, and and alphabetized list in the third post. (If you need to, just ask for help. We'll be friendly.) If we haven't recommended it already, then when you vote, use your +2 or your +1 to add the work to the list with 2 or 1 points. (Essentially, everything that we haven't recommended that is not on our list is at 0 points, and you just vote it up from there.)

2. When a work on the board has 7 more points than any other work on the board, it is selected as our next highest recommendation. We remove it from the board. Its place on that list is not subject to further voting, and it doesn't need to be added to the board again. (It will help me if you note the recommended work in bold type so that I can update the list easily.)

3. If a work is voted down to zero points, it is removed from the board, but it can be added again at any time if someone votes for it.

4. If someone appears to have made a minor error in their vote, we can fix it just by posting the correct list. We should consider the indication of how the participant intended to vote (that is, the thing like "Beethoven 5 / Rite of Spring / Brahms Piano Trio") as authoritative, and if the board they post doesn't jive with that, then we should fix the board. If a vote is so erroneous that we can't figure out how to fix it in accordance with the voter's evident wishes, then we'll just skip it. If you find out your vote has been skipped, you are eligible to vote again immediately.

5. We'll consider works such as Chopin's Nocturnes as a single work if they are almost always recorded as a group, if they are not collectively too large - not more than 2 or 3 hours - and if the individual components wouldn't merit much consideration alone. These are vague guidelines because no very firm rule will fit all cases, so the community of participants can discuss any particular ambiguous choices.

Philosophical points:

1. The negative vote is necessary to curb excessive idiosyncrasy, but if people vote against a work you support, and you can't change their mind, don't despair: it will probably be a more popular choice later in the project. Try to remember that this is supposed to be fun.

2. Above all, please remain calm, and try to cooperate with the other voters. In order for a work to reach the 7 point lead needed for recommendation, frequently we will need to cooperate and negotiate about our votes; for instance, "I'll vote for the Goldberg Variations now if you'll vote for the Diabellis next." A third participant might offer her support if you switched the order. And so on. This discussion is an important part of the process. The nature of collaboration like this is that none of us will agree with all of the group's choices. Please remember that it's a project, not a competition. Please be willing to compromise and negotiate, and above all please remain polite to each other!

TO THE VETERANS OF MY OTHER PROJECTS: It's a +2/+1/-1 project, with 9 hours between votes.

*Please forgive me! I've made the explanation as simple as I can. It's really much simpler than it sounds, though. If the explanation isn't clear, just watch the thing as it happens and you'll figure it out.

[coffee]

This post is reserved for the list of recommendations....

[coffee]

This post is reserved for the alphabetical list of recommended works.

[coffee]

OK, here is the first vote:

Beethoven: Symphony #5 - 2
Vivaldi: Il cimento dell'armonia e dell'invenzione - 1

Beethoven / Vivaldi / nothing


[only this very first vote is allowed not to have a negative vote because there's nothing to vote against]

[Polednice]

I haven't done this before, but let's give it a spin.

Beethoven: Symphony No. 5 - 2
Beethoven: Symphony No. 6 - 1
Brahms: Hungarian Dances - 2
(Vivaldi: Il cimento dell'armonia e dell'invenzione - 0)

Brahms / Beethoven 6 / Vivaldi

[and I'm interpreting this quite specifically as recommendations for newcomers - if this were a "best" or a "favourite" list, I'd vote quite differently ]

[coffee]

Excellent! Well-done! The first vote (other than mine) is totally legal and we're off and rolling.

There's no need to keep on posting the board in large font unless people want to, and I'm going to delete the Vivaldi since it's at zero. So here's the board as of Polednice's vote:

Beethoven: Symphony No. 5 - 2
Beethoven: Symphony No. 6 - 1
Brahms: Hungarian Dances - 2

[DavidW]

We just did this last summer for several genres.  I'm not disapproving mind you, just letting you know that we might still be burnt out from that.  I didn't want you to think that you were being shunned if this thread didn't take off.

[coffee]

Thanks for letting us know David. (I saw that this "polling station" sub-forum is not too active, so I'm prepared!)

In this project, absolutely all genres are allowed, so if there's anything you didn't get to vote for before.... 

[Sammy]

After Polednice:

Beethoven: Symphony No. 5 - 2
Beethoven: Symphony No. 6 - 1
Brahms: Hungarian Dances - 1
Bach: Well Tempered Clavier(complete) - 2
Schubert: Winterreise - 1

[Marc]

I'm not sure if I understand the way of voting, but I hope my contribution is OK.

Like Polednice said, this has to do with my recommendation for newcomers, so it's not about my personal fave(s).

I'd like to add Rossini: Ouverture Guglielmo Tell

And I'd like to 'get rid of' Beethoven: Symphony 5. Reason: great masterpiece, but IMO not a piece to begin with as a newcomer.

In order:
Rossini - Ouverture GT / Brahms - HD / Beethoven 6

(And what a pity that Vivaldi has gone!)

[Conor71]

After Marc:

Bach/Schubert/Beethoven

Beethoven: Symphony No. 5 - 1
Brahms: Hungarian Dances - 2
Bach: Well Tempered Clavier(complete) - 4
Rossini:  William Tell Overture - 1
Schubert: Winterreise - 2

[coffee]

So Sammy's vote was "Bach / Schubert / Brahms HD" - that was a legal vote but it'll help us if you post it like that. 

Then Marc's vote is "Rossini - Ouverture GT / Brahms - HD / Beethoven 5" - you wrote about #5 in your post and then wrote as if you would vote against Beethoven 6, so we can't be sure... and that's why we need the "work / work / work" thing! But Conor71 interpreted that you meant to vote against 5, and we'll go with that - so the board looks like this:

Beethoven: Symphony No. 5 - 1
Beethoven: Symphony No. 6 - 1
Brahms: Hungarian Dances - 2
Bach: Well Tempered Clavier - 2
Rossini: William Tell Overture - 2
Schubert: Winterreise - 1

And then Conor's vote doesn't say whether he meant to vote against Beethoven 5 or 6, but he evidently subtracted from 6 (or else he interpreted Marc's as a vote against 6, and then himself voted against 5), so the board is:

Bach: Well Tempered Clavier - 4
Beethoven: Symphony No. 5 - 1
Brahms: Hungarian Dances - 2
Rossini: William Tell Overture - 2
Schubert: Winterreise - 2

[Sammy]

(And what a pity that Vivaldi has gone!)

I'm sure he will be back (like a toothache).

[Sammy]

So Sammy's vote was Bach / Schubert / Beethoven 6...

Not quite.  I didn't do anything with Beethoven's 6th.  I did a minus 1 to the Brahms Hungarian Dances.

Personally, I'd really like to close the poll now with Bach's WTC on top.  There's no way it will remain there.

[coffee]

Not quite.  I didn't do anything with Beethoven's 6th.  I did a minus 1 to the Brahms Hungarian Dances.

Yep, I got that fixed.

Personally, I'd really like to close the poll now with Bach's WTC on top.  There's no way it will remain there.

Don't know yet! Show up in 20 hours and vote for it again. Once it achieves recommendation, its place on our list is permanent.

[Polednice]

Really? The WTC?! If someone recommended that to me as a newcomer, I'd never have listened to classical music again. It may be "worse", but surely even the 1812 Overture has to come many places above. :p

[coffee]

Cannons over fugues?

Just joking. This is why we vote!

[Sammy]

Really? The WTC?! If someone recommended that to me as a newcomer, I'd never have listened to classical music again.

I'm interested in knowing why you consider the WTC a no-go for beginners. 

[Sammy]

So Sammy's vote was "Bach / Schubert / Brahms HD" - that was a legal vote but it'll help us if you post it like that. 

Is there such a thing as illegal votes around here?

[coffee]

Is there such a thing as illegal votes around here?

As long as we can tell what you mean in the "Work / Work / Work" part, and can apply it to the board at the time of your post, you're fine.

It's easier for us if you post that part, than if you post the board without telling us how you voted. Later on, people will sometimes be skipped, or other confusion, and when we're sorting it out we'll need the "work / work / work."